Re: [Talk-us] Walmart Import

[Peter Dobratz]

Hi Ilya,

This copnflation audit software tool is really good to allow multiple OSM
users to review the data before changes are made to OSM data.  I didn't
initially realize the amount of manual review of the data that is being
done prior to importing the data into OSM.

I've been reviewing a bunch of Walmarts using this tool and there will be a
lot of new good data being added to OSM through this process.  It seems
like people are generally preserving the choice of shop=supermarket or
shop=department_store and also name of "Walmart" or "Walmart Supercenter"
as the choice between the two is somewhat arbitrary.  Also, in many cases
the addr:full tag is being omitted if that same information is already
contained in existing addr:housenumber, addr:street, and addr:unit tags.

Peter

On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 6:22 AM, Ilya Zverev  wrote:

> Hi Peter,
>
> Thank you for the extended example of opening_hours containing holidays
> exceptions. While validating the Walmart import, I've encountered a couple
> of these, albeit simpler.
>
> My opinion on tags does not have an extra weight in relation to other
> mappers. With the introduction of the "Conflation Audit" website, to which
> I link, the data owner does not dictate which tags to overwrite as well. By
> participating in validation, you choose which tags to keep and which to
> override, and where to place imported points.
>
> For example, when seeing "24/7; Dec 25 off" on a Walmart, I clicked on
> that line, so it doesn't get overwritten on import. The line becomes
> highlighted, which means that's what will be in OSM after the import. See
> for an example this object:
>
> http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/walmart/4404
>
> Sorry I didn't get to answer earlier,
> Ilya
>
> > 22 дек. 2017 г., в 10:46, Peter Dobratz  написал(а):
> >
> > Ilya,
> >
> > I'm trying to wrap my head around how making this a "frictionless series
> of imports" is going to work.  So if a local mapper edits details on a
> Walmart, those details could potentially be swiftly overwritten with your
> data?
> >
> > As you can see, the opening hours for next week are non-standard due to
> the Christmas holiday.  What if someone decides they want to add that level
> of detail to the opening_hours tag:
> > opening_hours=00:00-01:00,05:00-24:00; Dec 24 5:00-18:00; Dec 25 off;
> Dec 26 06:00-24:00
> >
> > How long until you automatically replace this with "05:00-01:00" ?
> >
> > Do you see the problem with doing that?
> >
> > As you say there are differences of opinion in how things are tagged.
> Why does your opinion get to have more weight?
> >
> > Peter
> >
> > On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 1:12 AM, Ilya Zverev  wrote:
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> > Thank you for suggestions.
> >
> > First, the highlighted tag value is what goes into OSM. In your case,
> the import will keep the shop=department_store.
> >
> > Regarding updates to opening_hours, you are suggesting I parse each
> opening_hours value and then compare these? It would be quite hard and in
> my opinion excessive. With the two values being equivalent, I don't how the
> data becomes worse. A few times I omitted "Mo-Su", I was being told it's
> better to specify the weekdays, so it is again a matter of opinion.
> >
> > In your example, you override the definition for Monday, so it doesn't
> demonstrate anything besides how complex the opening_hours notation is.
> >
> > The rest I answered in imports@, and some of it goes against what other
> community members suggest, so again I can conclude that is a matter of
> opinion and not important one way or another:
> >
> > * URL is provided by Walmart and is much better than what we have.
> /whats-new can be fixed later, and does not really matter, because it still
> takes to a store page.
> > * addr:full is provided by Walmart and may be used to improve addressing
> where there are no addr:* tags. Sorry the importing script cannot do
> conditional tagging.
> > * operator was recommended by community members, and is a good tag to
> filter all Walmarts.
> > * ref:walmart will be used for updating the data. Ref may refer not only
> to a store, but to a building or another feature.
> >
> > Please understand that this is not a one-off handcrafted import. We are
> working on a process for frictionless series of imports, with regular
> updates later on. I understand you have mapped a Walmart and feel
> protective of it. I felt the same a few years into OSM, because everything
> you add to the map is important. With this import, I believe it does not
> make the data worse. More attributes is not bad, even if some of these are
> redundant. The main thing is, until now there were zero mappers who care
> about keeping all the Walmart stores in OSM up-to-date, and after, there
> will be more. To me, that is a good thing.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ilya
> >
> >
> > > 21 дек. 2017 г., в 1:22, Peter Dobratz  написал(а):
> > >
> > > Ilya,
> > >
> > > Here's a Walmart 

Re: [Talk-us] Walmart Import

[Ilya Zverev]

Hi Peter,

Thank you for the extended example of opening_hours containing holidays 
exceptions. While validating the Walmart import, I've encountered a couple of 
these, albeit simpler.

My opinion on tags does not have an extra weight in relation to other mappers. 
With the introduction of the "Conflation Audit" website, to which I link, the 
data owner does not dictate which tags to overwrite as well. By participating 
in validation, you choose which tags to keep and which to override, and where 
to place imported points.

For example, when seeing "24/7; Dec 25 off" on a Walmart, I clicked on that 
line, so it doesn't get overwritten on import. The line becomes highlighted, 
which means that's what will be in OSM after the import. See for an example 
this object:

http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/walmart/4404

Sorry I didn't get to answer earlier,
Ilya

> 22 дек. 2017 г., в 10:46, Peter Dobratz  написал(а):
> 
> Ilya,
> 
> I'm trying to wrap my head around how making this a "frictionless series of 
> imports" is going to work.  So if a local mapper edits details on a Walmart, 
> those details could potentially be swiftly overwritten with your data?
> 
> As you can see, the opening hours for next week are non-standard due to the 
> Christmas holiday.  What if someone decides they want to add that level of 
> detail to the opening_hours tag:
> opening_hours=00:00-01:00,05:00-24:00; Dec 24 5:00-18:00; Dec 25 off; Dec 26 
> 06:00-24:00
> 
> How long until you automatically replace this with "05:00-01:00" ?
> 
> Do you see the problem with doing that?
> 
> As you say there are differences of opinion in how things are tagged.  Why 
> does your opinion get to have more weight?
> 
> Peter
> 
> On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 1:12 AM, Ilya Zverev  wrote:
> Hi Peter,
> 
> Thank you for suggestions.
> 
> First, the highlighted tag value is what goes into OSM. In your case, the 
> import will keep the shop=department_store.
> 
> Regarding updates to opening_hours, you are suggesting I parse each 
> opening_hours value and then compare these? It would be quite hard and in my 
> opinion excessive. With the two values being equivalent, I don't how the data 
> becomes worse. A few times I omitted "Mo-Su", I was being told it's better to 
> specify the weekdays, so it is again a matter of opinion.
> 
> In your example, you override the definition for Monday, so it doesn't 
> demonstrate anything besides how complex the opening_hours notation is.
> 
> The rest I answered in imports@, and some of it goes against what other 
> community members suggest, so again I can conclude that is a matter of 
> opinion and not important one way or another:
> 
> * URL is provided by Walmart and is much better than what we have. /whats-new 
> can be fixed later, and does not really matter, because it still takes to a 
> store page.
> * addr:full is provided by Walmart and may be used to improve addressing 
> where there are no addr:* tags. Sorry the importing script cannot do 
> conditional tagging.
> * operator was recommended by community members, and is a good tag to filter 
> all Walmarts.
> * ref:walmart will be used for updating the data. Ref may refer not only to a 
> store, but to a building or another feature.
> 
> Please understand that this is not a one-off handcrafted import. We are 
> working on a process for frictionless series of imports, with regular updates 
> later on. I understand you have mapped a Walmart and feel protective of it. I 
> felt the same a few years into OSM, because everything you add to the map is 
> important. With this import, I believe it does not make the data worse. More 
> attributes is not bad, even if some of these are redundant. The main thing 
> is, until now there were zero mappers who care about keeping all the Walmart 
> stores in OSM up-to-date, and after, there will be more. To me, that is a 
> good thing.
> 
> Thanks,
> Ilya
> 
> 
> > 21 дек. 2017 г., в 1:22, Peter Dobratz  написал(а):
> >
> > Ilya,
> >
> > Here's a Walmart that's been built in the last few years I recently added 
> > to OSM:
> >
> > http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/walmart/5935
> >
> > What's currently in OSM represents my own mapping style, but I think it's 
> > worth discussing the differences before you change them across the whole 
> > country.
> >
> >
> > If I read this correctly, you are planning on changing the top-level tag 
> > from shop=department_store to shop=supermarket.  I have been using 
> > shop=supermarket only for Walmarts branded as "Walmart Neighborhood Market" 
> > and using shop=department_store for all other Walmarts.  For me the main 
> > distinction is that most Walmarts have departments for things like clothing 
> > and electronics that don't exist in the "Walmart Neighborhood Market" 
> > stores.
> >
> >
> > You are proposing changing the opening_hours tag from 
> > "00:00-01:00,05:00-24:00" to "Mo-Su 05:00-01:00".  When I'm adding opening 
> > hours, I