Hi Ilya, This copnflation audit software tool is really good to allow multiple OSM users to review the data before changes are made to OSM data. I didn't initially realize the amount of manual review of the data that is being done prior to importing the data into OSM.
I've been reviewing a bunch of Walmarts using this tool and there will be a lot of new good data being added to OSM through this process. It seems like people are generally preserving the choice of shop=supermarket or shop=department_store and also name of "Walmart" or "Walmart Supercenter" as the choice between the two is somewhat arbitrary. Also, in many cases the addr:full tag is being omitted if that same information is already contained in existing addr:housenumber, addr:street, and addr:unit tags. Peter On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 6:22 AM, Ilya Zverev <i...@zverev.info> wrote: > Hi Peter, > > Thank you for the extended example of opening_hours containing holidays > exceptions. While validating the Walmart import, I've encountered a couple > of these, albeit simpler. > > My opinion on tags does not have an extra weight in relation to other > mappers. With the introduction of the "Conflation Audit" website, to which > I link, the data owner does not dictate which tags to overwrite as well. By > participating in validation, you choose which tags to keep and which to > override, and where to place imported points. > > For example, when seeing "24/7; Dec 25 off" on a Walmart, I clicked on > that line, so it doesn't get overwritten on import. The line becomes > highlighted, which means that's what will be in OSM after the import. See > for an example this object: > > http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/walmart/4404 > > Sorry I didn't get to answer earlier, > Ilya > > > 22 дек. 2017 г., в 10:46, Peter Dobratz <pe...@dobratz.us> написал(а): > > > > Ilya, > > > > I'm trying to wrap my head around how making this a "frictionless series > of imports" is going to work. So if a local mapper edits details on a > Walmart, those details could potentially be swiftly overwritten with your > data? > > > > As you can see, the opening hours for next week are non-standard due to > the Christmas holiday. What if someone decides they want to add that level > of detail to the opening_hours tag: > > opening_hours=00:00-01:00,05:00-24:00; Dec 24 5:00-18:00; Dec 25 off; > Dec 26 06:00-24:00 > > > > How long until you automatically replace this with "05:00-01:00" ? > > > > Do you see the problem with doing that? > > > > As you say there are differences of opinion in how things are tagged. > Why does your opinion get to have more weight? > > > > Peter > > > > On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 1:12 AM, Ilya Zverev <i...@zverev.info> wrote: > > Hi Peter, > > > > Thank you for suggestions. > > > > First, the highlighted tag value is what goes into OSM. In your case, > the import will keep the shop=department_store. > > > > Regarding updates to opening_hours, you are suggesting I parse each > opening_hours value and then compare these? It would be quite hard and in > my opinion excessive. With the two values being equivalent, I don't how the > data becomes worse. A few times I omitted "Mo-Su", I was being told it's > better to specify the weekdays, so it is again a matter of opinion. > > > > In your example, you override the definition for Monday, so it doesn't > demonstrate anything besides how complex the opening_hours notation is. > > > > The rest I answered in imports@, and some of it goes against what other > community members suggest, so again I can conclude that is a matter of > opinion and not important one way or another: > > > > * URL is provided by Walmart and is much better than what we have. > /whats-new can be fixed later, and does not really matter, because it still > takes to a store page. > > * addr:full is provided by Walmart and may be used to improve addressing > where there are no addr:* tags. Sorry the importing script cannot do > conditional tagging. > > * operator was recommended by community members, and is a good tag to > filter all Walmarts. > > * ref:walmart will be used for updating the data. Ref may refer not only > to a store, but to a building or another feature. > > > > Please understand that this is not a one-off handcrafted import. We are > working on a process for frictionless series of imports, with regular > updates later on. I understand you have mapped a Walmart and feel > protective of it. I felt the same a few years into OSM, because everything > you add to the map is important. With this import, I believe it does not > make the data worse. More attributes is not bad, even if some of these are > redundant. The main thing is, until now there were zero mappers who care > about keeping all the Walmart stores in OSM up-to-date, and after, there > will be more. To me, that is a good thing. > > > > Thanks, > > Ilya > > > > > > > 21 дек. 2017 г., в 1:22, Peter Dobratz <pe...@dobratz.us> написал(а): > > > > > > Ilya, > > > > > > Here's a Walmart that's been built in the last few years I recently > added to OSM: > > > > > > http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/walmart/5935 > > > > > > What's currently in OSM represents my own mapping style, but I think > it's worth discussing the differences before you change them across the > whole country. > > > > > > > > > If I read this correctly, you are planning on changing the top-level > tag from shop=department_store to shop=supermarket. I have been using > shop=supermarket only for Walmarts branded as "Walmart Neighborhood Market" > and using shop=department_store for all other Walmarts. For me the main > distinction is that most Walmarts have departments for things like clothing > and electronics that don't exist in the "Walmart Neighborhood Market" > stores. > > > > > > > > > You are proposing changing the opening_hours tag from > "00:00-01:00,05:00-24:00" to "Mo-Su 05:00-01:00". When I'm adding opening > hours, I avoid timespans that cross midnight as there is some difference of > opinion as to what those timespans actually represent. I think most people > would say that these two opening hours are equivalent, but if you were to > have something like "Mo-Sa 05:00-01:00; Su 10:00-22:00" this illustrates > the problem with different interpretations of times that span midnight: > > > http://openingh.openstreetmap.de/evaluation_tool/?EXP=Mo-Sa% > 2005%3A00-01%3A00%3B%20Su%2010%3A00-22%3A00 > > > http://projets.pavie.info/yohours/?oh=Mo-Sa%2005:00-01: > 00;%20Su%2010:00-22:00 > > > I also omit "Mo-Su" when writing opening_hours as, in my opinion, this > doesn't add value to the data and from a human-readable perspective it > looks very similar to "Mo-Sa" which of course means something different. > Another problem with "Mo-Su" is that it is equivalent to "Su-Sa" or any of > the other 7 possible variations. > > > One of the problems with the opening_hours tag in general is that > there are many ways of representing the same set of opening hours and I'm > not aware of any efforts to establish a canonical representation for > opening_hours. Can you avoid updating opening_hours if the new value is > equivalent to the old value? > > > > > > > > > For the website tag, I prefer to use simple URLs: > > > http://www.walmart.com/ > > > https://www.walmart.com/store/5935/tigard-or/whats-new > > > The advantage to using the basic URL is that it will still continue to > work in the future even if Walmart decides to reformat their webiste. The > disadvantage is that it does not go to a page specific to this particular > store. Reading through the imports list, I see there is already some > discussion about whether to use the "whats-new" or "details" URL for each > store. What happens in a year when the "whats-new" URL no longer works? > > > > > > > > > I would omit the addr:full tag at least on objects where addr:street > and addr:housenumber already exist. > > > > > > > > > I would also omit the operator=Walmart tag. I only use operator if > the value of the operator is different from the value of name. > > > > > > > > > The object already has ref=5935. The ref:walmart=5935 tag is > superfluous and I would omit it. It's fairly well established practice to > use the plain ref tag for mapping store identifiers. We don't need a > separate ref:* tag for every store. > > > > > > > > > Overall, I think you need to put in more effort to determine whether > the data that you are using to overwrite existing OSM data is in fact > better. Since you want to get this done "before the New Year", maybe it > would be better to just leave existing OSM tags alone for now and then > manually check them against your dataset later. > > > > > > I don't have any specific examples handy, but I've seen cases where > the data on the company website is wrong for things like postal code, house > numbers, or streets. Sometimes it seems that companies change their > addresses to get their geocoding service of choice to put the placemarker > in the right spot, so I would be especially wary of changing existing OSM > data. > > > > > > Peter > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 11:45 AM, Ilya Zverev <i...@zverev.info> > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > As some of you know, Brandify company wants to import all the Walmart > locations in the US into OpenStreetMap. They have full permission to do > that. See the message from their VP Product, Damian, for more detailed > explanation: > > > > > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/2017- > December/005279.html > > > > > > After a brief discussion on the imports@ list, they made a few > proposed changes, and I re-uploaded the result to my imports validation > website. Could you please look through a couple dozen points, to ensure > they will be added to correct locations with correct tags? The more the > better — I plan to to a few hundred myself: > > > > > > http://audit.osmz.ru/project/walmart > > > > > > I really hope we can finish this before the New Year. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Ilya > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Talk-us mailing list > > > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org > > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Talk-us mailing list > > > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org > > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Talk-us mailing list > > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us > >
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