Hi Peter, Thank you for the extended example of opening_hours containing holidays exceptions. While validating the Walmart import, I've encountered a couple of these, albeit simpler.
My opinion on tags does not have an extra weight in relation to other mappers. With the introduction of the "Conflation Audit" website, to which I link, the data owner does not dictate which tags to overwrite as well. By participating in validation, you choose which tags to keep and which to override, and where to place imported points. For example, when seeing "24/7; Dec 25 off" on a Walmart, I clicked on that line, so it doesn't get overwritten on import. The line becomes highlighted, which means that's what will be in OSM after the import. See for an example this object: http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/walmart/4404 Sorry I didn't get to answer earlier, Ilya > 22 дек. 2017 г., в 10:46, Peter Dobratz <pe...@dobratz.us> написал(а): > > Ilya, > > I'm trying to wrap my head around how making this a "frictionless series of > imports" is going to work. So if a local mapper edits details on a Walmart, > those details could potentially be swiftly overwritten with your data? > > As you can see, the opening hours for next week are non-standard due to the > Christmas holiday. What if someone decides they want to add that level of > detail to the opening_hours tag: > opening_hours=00:00-01:00,05:00-24:00; Dec 24 5:00-18:00; Dec 25 off; Dec 26 > 06:00-24:00 > > How long until you automatically replace this with "05:00-01:00" ? > > Do you see the problem with doing that? > > As you say there are differences of opinion in how things are tagged. Why > does your opinion get to have more weight? > > Peter > > On Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 1:12 AM, Ilya Zverev <i...@zverev.info> wrote: > Hi Peter, > > Thank you for suggestions. > > First, the highlighted tag value is what goes into OSM. In your case, the > import will keep the shop=department_store. > > Regarding updates to opening_hours, you are suggesting I parse each > opening_hours value and then compare these? It would be quite hard and in my > opinion excessive. With the two values being equivalent, I don't how the data > becomes worse. A few times I omitted "Mo-Su", I was being told it's better to > specify the weekdays, so it is again a matter of opinion. > > In your example, you override the definition for Monday, so it doesn't > demonstrate anything besides how complex the opening_hours notation is. > > The rest I answered in imports@, and some of it goes against what other > community members suggest, so again I can conclude that is a matter of > opinion and not important one way or another: > > * URL is provided by Walmart and is much better than what we have. /whats-new > can be fixed later, and does not really matter, because it still takes to a > store page. > * addr:full is provided by Walmart and may be used to improve addressing > where there are no addr:* tags. Sorry the importing script cannot do > conditional tagging. > * operator was recommended by community members, and is a good tag to filter > all Walmarts. > * ref:walmart will be used for updating the data. Ref may refer not only to a > store, but to a building or another feature. > > Please understand that this is not a one-off handcrafted import. We are > working on a process for frictionless series of imports, with regular updates > later on. I understand you have mapped a Walmart and feel protective of it. I > felt the same a few years into OSM, because everything you add to the map is > important. With this import, I believe it does not make the data worse. More > attributes is not bad, even if some of these are redundant. The main thing > is, until now there were zero mappers who care about keeping all the Walmart > stores in OSM up-to-date, and after, there will be more. To me, that is a > good thing. > > Thanks, > Ilya > > > > 21 дек. 2017 г., в 1:22, Peter Dobratz <pe...@dobratz.us> написал(а): > > > > Ilya, > > > > Here's a Walmart that's been built in the last few years I recently added > > to OSM: > > > > http://audit.osmz.ru/browse/walmart/5935 > > > > What's currently in OSM represents my own mapping style, but I think it's > > worth discussing the differences before you change them across the whole > > country. > > > > > > If I read this correctly, you are planning on changing the top-level tag > > from shop=department_store to shop=supermarket. I have been using > > shop=supermarket only for Walmarts branded as "Walmart Neighborhood Market" > > and using shop=department_store for all other Walmarts. For me the main > > distinction is that most Walmarts have departments for things like clothing > > and electronics that don't exist in the "Walmart Neighborhood Market" > > stores. > > > > > > You are proposing changing the opening_hours tag from > > "00:00-01:00,05:00-24:00" to "Mo-Su 05:00-01:00". When I'm adding opening > > hours, I avoid timespans that cross midnight as there is some difference of > > opinion as to what those timespans actually represent. I think most people > > would say that these two opening hours are equivalent, but if you were to > > have something like "Mo-Sa 05:00-01:00; Su 10:00-22:00" this illustrates > > the problem with different interpretations of times that span midnight: > > http://openingh.openstreetmap.de/evaluation_tool/?EXP=Mo-Sa%2005%3A00-01%3A00%3B%20Su%2010%3A00-22%3A00 > > http://projets.pavie.info/yohours/?oh=Mo-Sa%2005:00-01:00;%20Su%2010:00-22:00 > > I also omit "Mo-Su" when writing opening_hours as, in my opinion, this > > doesn't add value to the data and from a human-readable perspective it > > looks very similar to "Mo-Sa" which of course means something different. > > Another problem with "Mo-Su" is that it is equivalent to "Su-Sa" or any of > > the other 7 possible variations. > > One of the problems with the opening_hours tag in general is that there are > > many ways of representing the same set of opening hours and I'm not aware > > of any efforts to establish a canonical representation for opening_hours. > > Can you avoid updating opening_hours if the new value is equivalent to the > > old value? > > > > > > For the website tag, I prefer to use simple URLs: > > http://www.walmart.com/ > > https://www.walmart.com/store/5935/tigard-or/whats-new > > The advantage to using the basic URL is that it will still continue to work > > in the future even if Walmart decides to reformat their webiste. The > > disadvantage is that it does not go to a page specific to this particular > > store. Reading through the imports list, I see there is already some > > discussion about whether to use the "whats-new" or "details" URL for each > > store. What happens in a year when the "whats-new" URL no longer works? > > > > > > I would omit the addr:full tag at least on objects where addr:street and > > addr:housenumber already exist. > > > > > > I would also omit the operator=Walmart tag. I only use operator if the > > value of the operator is different from the value of name. > > > > > > The object already has ref=5935. The ref:walmart=5935 tag is superfluous > > and I would omit it. It's fairly well established practice to use the > > plain ref tag for mapping store identifiers. We don't need a separate > > ref:* tag for every store. > > > > > > Overall, I think you need to put in more effort to determine whether the > > data that you are using to overwrite existing OSM data is in fact better. > > Since you want to get this done "before the New Year", maybe it would be > > better to just leave existing OSM tags alone for now and then manually > > check them against your dataset later. > > > > I don't have any specific examples handy, but I've seen cases where the > > data on the company website is wrong for things like postal code, house > > numbers, or streets. Sometimes it seems that companies change their > > addresses to get their geocoding service of choice to put the placemarker > > in the right spot, so I would be especially wary of changing existing OSM > > data. > > > > Peter > > > > > > On Wed, Dec 20, 2017 at 11:45 AM, Ilya Zverev <i...@zverev.info> wrote: > > Hi, > > > > As some of you know, Brandify company wants to import all the Walmart > > locations in the US into OpenStreetMap. They have full permission to do > > that. See the message from their VP Product, Damian, for more detailed > > explanation: > > > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/imports/2017-December/005279.html > > > > After a brief discussion on the imports@ list, they made a few proposed > > changes, and I re-uploaded the result to my imports validation website. > > Could you please look through a couple dozen points, to ensure they will be > > added to correct locations with correct tags? The more the better — I plan > > to to a few hundred myself: > > > > http://audit.osmz.ru/project/walmart > > > > I really hope we can finish this before the New Year. > > > > Thanks, > > Ilya > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Talk-us mailing list > > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Talk-us mailing list > > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us > > > _______________________________________________ > Talk-us mailing list > Talk-us@openstreetmap.org > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us _______________________________________________ Talk-us mailing list Talk-us@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-us
