Re: [Talk-us] Best practice in Lane Editing 2

[James Mast]

Because back in the day, people complained about the spelling and that it had 
to be in the 'British' way.  So, it's under 'centre_turn_lane'.

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:centre_turn_lane

Key:centre_turn_lane - OpenStreetMap 
Wiki<https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:centre_turn_lane>
wiki.openstreetmap.org
A two-way center turn lane is a normal-width lane in the middle of a road that 
handles traffic from either direction turning across the other side (turning 
left in ...




From: m...@rtijn.org <m...@rtijn.org>
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 4:37:09 PM
To: Paul Johnson
Cc: Horea Meleg; talk-US@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Best practice in Lane Editing 2

For the ‘dashed line’ center turn lanes: what you do makes sense to me too. I 
have used center_turn_lane=yes in the past, but that is not documented and I 
wouldn’t encourage it. This way it fits nicely into the lanes schema.

The turn lanes plugin seems to support this nicely: 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8wmp5h2cn931pic/Screenshot%202017-06-19%2014.33.40.jpg?dl=0
 — even though the center lane is rarely marked with left turn arrows, as 
suggested by the turn lane style.

Martijn

On Jun 19, 2017, at 5:20 AM, Paul Johnson 
<ba...@ursamundi.org<mailto:ba...@ursamundi.org>> wrote:

In this case, with the dual-direction turn lane, I would label that with 
lanes:both_ways=1 and turn:lanes:both_ways=left.  If the center lane has two 
solid lines (making it a flush median), then lanes:both_ways=1 and 
access:lanes:both_ways=no

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 6:17 AM, Horea Meleg 
<horea.me...@telenav.com<mailto:horea.me...@telenav.com>> wrote:
Hello all,
Me and my Telenav colleagues are editing lane numbers in Detroit area. We found 
some cases that looks like this (42.43651692568901, -83.51102781049859):

Our question is: what is the central lane used for and how do we map it?
Should we count it as a separate lane and have 3 lanes in this case (one for 
each direction and one for both directions)

or have only 2, one for each direction?


Thank you,
Horea Meleg

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Re: [Talk-us] Best practice in Lane Editing 2

[Shawn K. Quinn]

On 06/20/2017 06:43 AM, Paul Johnson wrote:
> Depends on the region.  Oregon, Oklahoma, and California often includes
> the arrows anyway.

Texas often includes the arrows as well.

-- 
Shawn K. Quinn 
http://www.rantroulette.com
http://www.skqrecordquest.com

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Re: [Talk-us] Best practice in Lane Editing 2

[Paul Johnson]

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 3:37 PM,  wrote:

> The turn lanes plugin seems to support this nicely: https://www.dropbox.
> com/s/8wmp5h2cn931pic/Screenshot%202017-06-19%2014.33.40.jpg?dl=0 — even
> though the center lane is rarely marked with left turn arrows, as suggested
> by the turn lane style.
>

Depends on the region.  Oregon, Oklahoma, and California often includes the
arrows anyway.
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Re: [Talk-us] Best practice in Lane Editing 2

[Paul Johnson]

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 10:44 PM, John F. Eldredge 
wrote:

> Judging from the markings, that is a turn lane shared by both directions.
> You cannot legally use it to pass a car in the main driving lane, you can
> only use it to make a left turn. Lanes of this type are nicknamed "suicide
> lanes", because of the possibility that vehicles going in opposite
> directions may try to use it simultaneously, resulting in a head-on
> collision.
>
Suicide lanes are something else: They're passing lanes in both directions,
not continuous bidirectional left turn lanes.  Historically, they were like
the reversible left turn lane, only with a dotted yellow line and no solid
line.  Neither direction had right of way.  This concept is, as far as I'm
aware, obsolete in the US.  Typical configuration is now 2+1, with the
center lane being one of the two lanes for the uphill direction, signed
KEEP RIGHT EXCEPT TO PASS, with one downhill lane and the centerline
indicating the downhill direction can use the center lane to pass.  With
the mass repave-the-entire-state push Oregon recently completed, I don't
think even the historical remnants of these (where you could still see the
faded remains of the former suicide lane yellow stripes) remain at this
point (whereas previously you could see hints and traces of the old yellow
line where the white line is on the uphill side is on Oregon's 3-lane
highways).
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Re: [Talk-us] Best practice in Lane Editing 2

[Marc Gemis]

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 10:37 PM,   wrote:
> The turn lanes plugin seems to support this nicely:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/8wmp5h2cn931pic/Screenshot%202017-06-19%2014.33.40.jpg?dl=0
> — even though the center lane is rarely marked with left turn arrows, as
> suggested by the turn lane style.

That's because in Europe they usually have those left turn arrows. :-)

m.

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[Talk-us] Best practice in Lane Editing 2

[Michael Patrick]

> > Me and my Telenav colleagues are editing lane numbers in Detroit area.
> We found some cases that looks like this (42.43651692568901,
> -83.51102781049859): Our question is: what is the central lane used for and
> how do we map it? Should we count it as a separate lane and have 3 lanes in
> this case (one for each direction and one for both directions)
>

In that specific case, it is not a traffic lane per se, it a 'left turn
lane' when leaving the roadway, and a 'merge' lane if one is making a left
turn onto the roadways. It also acts as a traffic separator.

I used to live in that area - there is an *exceptional* piece of weirdness
at ( 42.5665399,-83.0309866 ).

Michael
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Re: [Talk-us] Best practice in Lane Editing 2

[John F. Eldredge]

Judging from the markings, that is a turn lane shared by both directions. You 
cannot legally use it to pass a car in the main driving lane, you can only use 
it to make a left turn. Lanes of this type are nicknamed "suicide lanes", 
because of the possibility that vehicles going in opposite directions may try 
to use it simultaneously, resulting in a head-on collision.

-- 
John F. Eldredge -- john@jfeldredge
com
On Monday, June 19, 2017 at 6:18 AM Horea Meleg  wrote:
Hello all,
Me and my Telenav colleagues are editing lane numbers in Detroit area. We found 
some cases that looks like this (42.43651692568901, -83.51102781049859):
[cid:image001.jpg@01D2E906.C4A4DCA0]
Our question is: what is the central lane used for and how do we map it?
Should we count it as a separate lane and have 3 lanes in this case (one for 
each direction and one for both directions)
[cid:image002.png@01D2E906.C4A4DCA0]
or have only 2, one for each direction?
[cid:image003.png@01D2E906.C4A4DCA0]

Thank you,
Horea Meleg
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Re: [Talk-us] Best practice in Lane Editing 2

[m]

For the ‘dashed line’ center turn lanes: what you do makes sense to me too. I 
have used center_turn_lane=yes in the past, but that is not documented and I 
wouldn’t encourage it. This way it fits nicely into the lanes schema.

The turn lanes plugin seems to support this nicely: 
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8wmp5h2cn931pic/Screenshot%202017-06-19%2014.33.40.jpg?dl=0
 — even though the center lane is rarely marked with left turn arrows, as 
suggested by the turn lane style.

Martijn

> On Jun 19, 2017, at 5:20 AM, Paul Johnson  wrote:
> 
> In this case, with the dual-direction turn lane, I would label that with 
> lanes:both_ways=1 and turn:lanes:both_ways=left.  If the center lane has two 
> solid lines (making it a flush median), then lanes:both_ways=1 and 
> access:lanes:both_ways=no
> 
> On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 6:17 AM, Horea Meleg  > wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> Me and my Telenav colleagues are editing lane numbers in Detroit area. We 
> found some cases that looks like this (42.43651692568901, -83.51102781049859):
> 
> 
> 
> Our question is: what is the central lane used for and how do we map it?
> 
> Should we count it as a separate lane and have 3 lanes in this case (one for 
> each direction and one for both directions)
> 
> 
> 
> or have only 2, one for each direction?
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Thank you,
> 
> Horea Meleg
> 
> 
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Re: [Talk-us] Best practice in Lane Editing 2

[Paul Johnson]

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 9:24 AM, Tod Fitch  wrote:

> I haven’t settled on a tagging for when the center area is blocked by
> solid lines (legally meaning don’t cross), but an access tag would be
> reasonable. An alternative or addition to an access control could be using
> the proposed change:lanes tagging to show that one can’t change into or out
> of the center median area, but that would take more tags
> (change:lanes:forward=not_left, change:lanes:backward=not_left, and
> change:lanes:both_ways=no) and be less precise than
> access:lanes:both_ways=no.
>

When it's double-solid lines and slashes down the median (meaning that not
only can you not turn left from that lane, but you also can't turn left
across it), access:lanes:both_ways=no plus turn restrictions at the
junctions.
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Re: [Talk-us] Best practice in Lane Editing 2

[Tod Fitch]

> On Jun 19, 2017, at 4:20 AM, Paul Johnson  wrote:
> 
> In this case, with the dual-direction turn lane, I would label that with 
> lanes:both_ways=1 and turn:lanes:both_ways=left.  If the center lane has two 
> solid lines (making it a flush median), then lanes:both_ways=1 and 
> access:lanes:both_ways=no
> 

My current practice matches Paul’s first case where it is a center turn lane 
(lanes:both_ways=1 and turn:lanes:both_ways=left). Perhaps that is tagging for 
the editor as the turn lane plug in for JOSM displays it nicely.

I haven’t settled on a tagging for when the center area is blocked by solid 
lines (legally meaning don’t cross), but an access tag would be reasonable. An 
alternative or addition to an access control could be using the proposed 
change:lanes tagging to show that one can’t change into or out of the center 
median area, but that would take more tags (change:lanes:forward=not_left, 
change:lanes:backward=not_left, and change:lanes:both_ways=no) and be less 
precise than access:lanes:both_ways=no.




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Re: [Talk-us] Best practice in Lane Editing 2

[Paul Johnson]

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 7:16 AM, Kerry Irons 
wrote:

> Center lane is a left turn only lane.  If the space to the side of the
> solid white lines is a bike lane, then this street may have be subject to a
> “road diet” in which a 4 lane street is reduced to two travel lanes, a turn
> lane, and two bike lanes.  Otherwise the street was constructed in that
> configuration.
>

Doesn't look like bike lanes, looks like hard shoulders alternating with
right turn pockets.  But bicycle lanes are travel lanes, so a road diet
from a 4 lane to a street with two general access and two bicycle lanes and
a central turn lane would be 5 lanes.
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Re: [Talk-us] Best practice in Lane Editing 2

[Kerry Irons]

Center lane is a left turn only lane.  If the space to the side of the solid 
white lines is a bike lane, then this street may have be subject to a “road 
diet” in which a 4 lane street is reduced to two travel lanes, a turn lane, and 
two bike lanes.  Otherwise the street was constructed in that configuration.

 

From: Paul Johnson [mailto:ba...@ursamundi.org] 
Sent: Monday, June 19, 2017 7:21 AM
To: Horea Meleg <horea.me...@telenav.com>
Cc: talk-US@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] Best practice in Lane Editing 2

 

In this case, with the dual-direction turn lane, I would label that with 
lanes:both_ways=1 and turn:lanes:both_ways=left.  If the center lane has two 
solid lines (making it a flush median), then lanes:both_ways=1 and 
access:lanes:both_ways=no

 

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 6:17 AM, Horea Meleg <horea.me...@telenav.com 
<mailto:horea.me...@telenav.com> > wrote:

Hello all,

Me and my Telenav colleagues are editing lane numbers in Detroit area. We found 
some cases that looks like this (42.43651692568901, -83.51102781049859): 



Our question is: what is the central lane used for and how do we map it?

Should we count it as a separate lane and have 3 lanes in this case (one for 
each direction and one for both directions) 



or have only 2, one for each direction?



 

Thank you,

Horea Meleg


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Re: [Talk-us] Best practice in Lane Editing 2

[Paul Johnson]

In this case, with the dual-direction turn lane, I would label that with
lanes:both_ways=1 and turn:lanes:both_ways=left.  If the center lane has
two solid lines (making it a flush median), then lanes:both_ways=1 and
access:lanes:both_ways=no

On Mon, Jun 19, 2017 at 6:17 AM, Horea Meleg 
wrote:

> Hello all,
>
> Me and my Telenav colleagues are editing lane numbers in Detroit area. We
> found some cases that looks like this (42.43651692568901,
> -83.51102781049859):
>
> Our question is: what is the central lane used for and how do we map it?
>
> Should we count it as a separate lane and have 3 lanes in this case (one
> for each direction and one for both directions)
>
> or have only 2, one for each direction?
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
> Horea Meleg
>
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>
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[Talk-us] Best practice in Lane Editing 2

[Horea Meleg]

Hello all,
Me and my Telenav colleagues are editing lane numbers in Detroit area. We found 
some cases that looks like this (42.43651692568901, -83.51102781049859):
[cid:image001.jpg@01D2E906.C4A4DCA0]
Our question is: what is the central lane used for and how do we map it?
Should we count it as a separate lane and have 3 lanes in this case (one for 
each direction and one for both directions)
[cid:image002.png@01D2E906.C4A4DCA0]
or have only 2, one for each direction?
[cid:image003.png@01D2E906.C4A4DCA0]

Thank you,
Horea Meleg
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