There are a number of sellers on ebay who have lots of original
manuals. One I have recently dealt with is Peter Kuretsky at
ABC-Electronics in Minneapolis (ebay user surp1mpls, email
[EMAIL PROTECTED]). Another I have quickly found is
The-Boston-Trading-Post in Massachusetts (ebay user
From: Dr Bruce Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5370B on eBay, carrier phase tracking GPS receiver
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 17:41:52 +1300
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Magnus Danielson wrote:
http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/ptti/ptti99/PTTI_1999_405.PDF
There is
Hej Magnus
Magnus Danielson wrote:
An interesting product originating from Mitel (Mike and Terry's
lawnmowers later became MITEL - according to their local rep about 20
odd years ago)
Hehe... yeah, I know it was in the Mitel days they started this. I even
beleive
that the GPS
From: Dr Bruce Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5370B on eBay, carrier phase tracking GPS receiver
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 23:39:47 +1300
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hej Magnus
Hej Bruce,
Fuller version is that the later Mitel founders worked for another
telecoms
Magnus Danielson wrote:
From: Dr Bruce Griffiths [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 5370B on eBay, carrier phase tracking GPS receiver
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 23:39:47 +1300
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hej Magnus
Hej Bruce,
Fuller version is that the later Mitel
Magnus Danielson wrote:
However if all you have is a 10811 it will limit the short term
satbility of such a GPSDO.
The phase carrier measurements will have a lower noise floor than the
10811 for tau 10s or so.
A better oscillator (FTS1200, FTS100 Oscilloquartz OSA8607 etc.) will
have a
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
Hej Magnus
Mitel actually used to make PABX equipment about 20 years ago. They also
did specialised ICs for such applications.
Bruce
That's what I knew them for, we even had a Mitel PABX for a while where
I work. Did not know they were into GPS and never seen
Saw an interesting article on GPS steered lawnmowers a few months ago. I
think it was in GPS World and some sort of competition
:-)
Rob K
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Didier Juges
Sent: 19 February 2007 12:42
To: Discussion of
On Mon, February 19, 2007 15:36, Rob Kimberley said:
Saw an interesting article on GPS steered lawnmowers a few months ago. I
think it was in GPS World and some sort of competition
Thats a competition between university teams arranged by the (US)
Institute of Navigation (www.ion.org).
--
I sort of understand the idea of correlation in order to receive the
signals from several satellites all on the same frequency, but I
wonder if someone has a simple explanation of how the carrier phase
can be tracked when there are several carriers all at once? Does it
rely on the different
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Peter Vince writes:
Does it
rely on the different Doppler-shifts making them distinguishable?
It would have to, if they were not on different frequencies, they
would sum to a single sinewave and you couldn't tell them apart
(unless you have a direction sensitive
Layman explanation, be nice to me please...
The notion of carrier with a spread spectrum system is theoretical.
There is no carrier signal being sent continuously and modulation
sidebands that contain the information, as you would with an AM signal.
This is more like an FM signal, where the
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Didier Juges writes:
There are at most 12
visible satellites at the same time, so there is no need for more than
12 channels (at least for a single frequency L1 receiver)
That's only true for a nominal 24 sat constellation. With the
current 30+ constellation you
Hi
But... as marketing people thinks that 'more satellites, better' some
manufactures are commercializing small GPS receivers with 16 and even 20
channels... and obviously, no advantage over 12-channel ones. Perhaps
they expect the Navstar constellation to be so crowded in the near
future to
There is an advantage in more channels...as in the main these are navigation
GPS receivers designed to work in all environments ( i.e. stuck on the
inside of your windscreen/windshield), and with all sorts of obscuration
problems. Having more processing channels does help give best chance of best
Rather than put it on my site, here is the link direct to Zyfer's site.
http://www.zyfer.com/briefings/gps/waas%20for%20t-f%20aps%2010-04.pdf
Rob Kimberley
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From: Didier Juges [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] carrier phase tracking GPS receiver
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 06:37:35 -0600
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Magnus Danielson wrote:
However if all you have is a 10811 it will limit the short term
satbility of such a GPSDO.
The
But... as marketing people thinks that 'more satellites, better' some
manufactures are commercializing small GPS receivers with 16 and even
20 channels... and obviously, no advantage over 12-channel ones.
Perhaps they expect the Navstar constellation to be so crowded in the
near future to
Hi Hal:
The interfering signals to GPS are:
1) other satellites, they all transmit on the same frequency.
2) ground based transmitters, through harmonic radiation.
3) defective ground based equipment, like the active TV antenna on a
ship in Monterey bay.
There are now GPS+Glonass (spelling?)
From: Peter Vince [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [time-nuts] Carrier phase tracking
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 16:30:04 +
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I sort of understand the idea of correlation in order to receive the
signals from several satellites all on the same frequency, but I
wonder if
Hal Murray wrote:
How many satellites are there in the Russian or European systems? Or will
there be if/when everything gets fully deployed?
The European Galileo system is planned with 30 satellites, with 27 actives
and 3 hot spares. Only one test bird is flying so far..
--Magne
From: Didier Juges [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Carrier phase tracking
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 11:19:28 -0600
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Layman explanation, be nice to me please...
The notion of carrier with a spread spectrum system is theoretical.
There is no carrier signal
From: Rob Kimberley [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Carrier phase tracking
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 17:55:49 -
Message-ID: ![EMAIL PROTECTED]
There is an advantage in more channels...as in the main these are navigation
GPS receivers designed to work in all environments ( i.e. stuck
Rob Kimberley wrote:
Interestingly, no one has mentioned the Augmentation systems like WAAS or
EGNOS where wide area correction data is transmitted down from INMARSAT to
improve nav accuracy. Primarily aimed at improved aircraft navigation
systems, it has a benefit for timing users. Zyfer have
Several of you have mentioned the Russian GPS system
(Glonass) which has been in operation since the 1980's.
Several commercial (high-end) receivers work with both
GPS and Glonass. Google for details.
I borrowed one of Doug's (niceties.com) combined GPS
and Glonass Javad receivers in 2001 and
If you take a look at the link I posted earlier, the advantages can be
summed up as follows:-
* More robust in noisy environments using a low-cost commercial DBS dish
antenna
* More accurate timing signal
* An alternate timing signal in case of GPS C/A loss
The paper was written by Hugo
Thank you Didier - it sounds horrendous, and I'm glad I am not trying
to design the equipment to do it :-)
Peter
Layman explanation, be nice to me please...
The notion of carrier with a spread spectrum system is theoretical.
There is no carrier signal being sent continuously and
From: Hal Murray [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Carrier phase tracking
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 12:34:33 -0800
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
But... as marketing people thinks that 'more satellites, better' some
manufactures are commercializing small GPS receivers with 16 and even
On 2/19/07, Poul-Henning Kamp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does it
rely on the different Doppler-shifts making them distinguishable?
It would have to, if they were not on different frequencies, they
would sum to a single sinewave and you couldn't tell them apart
(unless you have a direction
Magnus Danielson wrote:
You can acheive much greater speedup by a combined frequency/phase approach.
You will get a very accurate frequency error estimate, so you will very
quickly be close enought to go into phase lock. At least if your clock isn't
too noisy. So, the lock-in time should not
Didier Juges wrote:
Magnus Danielson wrote:
You can acheive much greater speedup by a combined frequency/phase approach.
You will get a very accurate frequency error estimate, so you will very
quickly be close enought to go into phase lock. At least if your clock isn't
too noisy. So, the
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Matt
Ettus writes:
On 2/19/07, Poul-Henning Kamp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does it
rely on the different Doppler-shifts making them distinguishable?
It would have to, if they were not on different frequencies, they
would sum to a single sinewave and you couldn't
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
Didier
Typically with a good local oscillator you can do even better than that,
around 1E-11 in 1 sec is achievable and has been achieved.
Even with the on board TCXO typically 3E-11 or so in 1s is achieved.
Bruce
I don't understand how such good variance can
From: Didier Juges [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] carrier phase tracking GPS receiver
Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2007 17:50:04 -0600
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Bon soir Didier,
Magnus Danielson wrote:
You can acheive much greater speedup by a combined frequency/phase approach.
You
From: Poul-Henning Kamp [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Carrier phase tracking
Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 00:11:59 +
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Matt
Ettus writes:
On 2/19/07, Poul-Henning Kamp [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Does it
rely on the
Hi Rob:
I'm concerned about using an 18 inch Ku band satellite dish for GPS.
At Ku band a wavelength is about 1 inch so the dish is 18 wavelengths
across.
But at GPS a wavelength is about 8 inches and so the dish is a little
over 2 wavelengths across, a much broader (if any at all) pattern.
Didier Juges wrote:
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
Didier
Typically with a good local oscillator you can do even better than that,
around 1E-11 in 1 sec is achievable and has been achieved.
Even with the on board TCXO typically 3E-11 or so in 1s is achieved.
Bruce
I don't
Hi Bruce,
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
Bon soir Didier
You are confusing the disciplining precision of the oscillator with
measurement of its short term stability via the GPS receiver in this case.
Bruce
Bon après midi to you, I believe, and if my Clock program is any good,
you just
Didier
Didier Juges wrote:
Hi Bruce,
Dr Bruce Griffiths wrote:
Bon soir Didier
You are confusing the disciplining precision of the oscillator with
measurement of its short term stability via the GPS receiver in this case.
Bruce
Bon après midi to you, I believe, and if my
This is somewhat off topic, but still a matter of precision timing.
A friend of mine wants to send a 3 GHz LO signal up a fiber optic cable.
I know there have been threads dealing with transmission of precise
timing signals over fiber optics, and I hope I can get some suggestions
where to look
Didier Juges wrote:
This is somewhat off topic, but still a matter of precision timing.
A friend of mine wants to send a 3 GHz LO signal up a fiber optic cable.
I know there have been threads dealing with transmission of precise
timing signals over fiber optics, and I hope I can get some
Didier Juges wrote:
This is somewhat off topic, but still a matter of precision timing.
A friend of mine wants to send a 3 GHz LO signal up a fiber optic cable.
I know there have been threads dealing with transmission of precise
timing signals over fiber optics, and I hope I can get some
Didier Juges wrote:
This is somewhat off topic, but still a matter of precision timing.
A friend of mine wants to send a 3 GHz LO signal up a fiber optic cable.
I know there have been threads dealing with transmission of precise
timing signals over fiber optics, and I hope I can get some
A friend of mine wants to send a 3 GHz LO signal up a fiber optic cable.
How crazy is your friend? What's wrong with a cleanup PLL?
As Bruce said, the people I know of who are good in that area are the radio
astronomers. They need timing (phase) stability rather than just frequency,
so
More satellites IS better in downtowns all over the globe, and in forrests
etc. Modern high sensitivity receivers have the equivalent of many 10
thousands of classic correlators... Good for finding faint signals,
using long correlations times, and tracking many reflections of the same
signal.
--
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