Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup, 5370

Measurements taken from 3325B at 1 MHz: 5370B reference: INT EXT (same 5087A as 3325B uses) Square wave, 2v pk:15-20 ps 11-12 ps Sine wave, 2v pk: 50-70 ps 30-35 ps Square wave, 1v pk:20-25 ps 12-13 ps Sine wave, 1v pk: 60-80 ps 40-45 ps Square wave

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup, 5370

> > My 5370A currently has the following characteristics: > > With the EXT 10MHz connected to the input jitter is 15ps. > > With an FTS1200 5MHz input signal jitter is 46ps. > > With an external GPS locked 10MHz input signal jitter is 45ps. > > > > This illustrates the danger in believing the jitte

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup

John Miles wrote: > Ultimately, people (including myself) need to grow a pair and start leaving > neutral/negative feedback for sellers who pack carelessly That's probably true. I'm up for it. -ch ___ time-nuts mailing list time-nuts@febo.com https:

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup, 5370

> The unit is actually relatively young (1990's), and has virtually no dust > whatsoever in it. Seems to have had very low usage. The actual 10MHz is > pretty > accurate, to within 10mHz. > > Has anyone else measured the 5370B output jitter? > > bye, > Said Oh so many projects, so little ti

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup

On Sat, 9 Jun 2007 15:27:29 -0400, "Norman J McSweyn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Apropos the conversation: >Techrecovery sold me a 5370a that was toast. The customer service guy gave >me a runaround for six weeks trying to first get another instrument and >after I gave that up as a lost cause,

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup, 5370

> John > > My 5370A currently has the following characteristics: > With the EXT 10MHz connected to the input jitter is 15ps. > With an FTS1200 5MHz input signal jitter is 46ps. > With an external GPS locked 10MHz input signal jitter is 45ps. > > This illustrates the danger in believing the jitter

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup, 5370

(Sorry, meant to delete my quoted text but deleted Bruce's instead) > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of John Miles > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 7:09 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts]

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup, 5370

It only goes up to 20-25 ps here, measuring the Thunderbolt->5087A output while running from the internal reference. About the same as what I see when measuring either the 8640B or 8662A. Definitely some correlation going on, but not as significant a difference. That is probably the sort of thin

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup, 5370

John Miles wrote: > Pretty similar results here, taken from the 5370B's rear-panel output while > running on the internal 10811B (attached). Indicated jitter with this setup > is about the same as it was on the ext ref via the 5087A (10-12 ps). > > I've seen this counter return self-test jitter re

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup

I have had two really bad packing jobs come to me, with serious damage, and in both cases, the vendor made it right. A DC-503 counter and TM-501 mainframe came with the front panel busted (but still working) and the seller gave me full credit. In another case (not quite as much damage on an HP

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup, 5370

Said, You sent pictures of the Fury's waveform, only the spectrum of the 5370. I did not look at the spectrum at the time, bu the waveform on the scope was low in amplitude and looked like 30 MHz with some 10 MHz component. It turns out a cap in the output filter was not making contact, and the

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup, 5370

> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of Dr Bruce Griffiths > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 5:53 PM > To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement > Subject: Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup, 5370 > Internal crosstalk can cause th

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup, 5370

John Miles wrote: > Pretty similar results here, taken from the 5370B's rear-panel output while > running on the internal 10811B (attached). Indicated jitter with this setup > is about the same as it was on the ext ref via the 5087A (10-12 ps). > > I've seen this counter return self-test jitter re

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup, 5370

Pretty similar results here, taken from the 5370B's rear-panel output while running on the internal 10811B (attached). Indicated jitter with this setup is about the same as it was on the ext ref via the 5087A (10-12 ps). I've seen this counter return self-test jitter results in the 15-25 ps range

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup, 5370

I am definitely not qualified to calibrate them for money. I will generally take a look at peoples' gear for free as long as they understand that they're lucky if it works as well when it leaves my bench as it did when they brought it over. :) -- john, KE5FX > > Wow, 10ps RMS is nice. I would b

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup, 5370

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi Bruce, > > just found out that the 10MHz output looks very much like the picture in the > 5370B service manual. > > I am not impressed. HP could have done a better job on that output :( Maybe > my unit isn't broken after all, maybe the 200ps RMS jitter is norma

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup, 5370

In a message dated 6/9/2007 17:00:32 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >One of my 5370A's had a severely distorted sine out, which Bruce helped me >trace to a bad solder joint >Didier Hi Didier, was it worse than the scope picture I just sent out? thanks, Said

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup, 5370

One of my 5370A's had a severely distorted sine out, which Bruce helped me trace to a bad solder joint on one of the cap that is part of the output filter. After reflowing the solder joint, it all came to life with a pretty good sinewave output. Some of the caps on the amplifier board look differe

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup, 5370

Hi Bruce, and finally here is a plot of both the 5370B and the Fury 10MHz sine wave spectras for comparison. It only takes a 5 - 9th order passive lowpass filter to make a nice sine wave out of the 5370B output, I wonder why HP didn't do that back then. Also, I think the 10811 output itse

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup, 5370

In a message dated 6/9/2007 14:04:01 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >I suspect this has been the fate of pretty much every 5370 out there, which >could account for some of the phase slips and other anomalies people >sometimes observe in long-term tests. >-- john, KE5FX

[time-nuts] AT&T /Lucent 10 Mhz reference Oscillator F/S

I have a AT&T /Lucent 10 Mhz reference Oscillator F/S Part number ED2R849-31 G4 I can send pics if interested. I got this a long time a go and it has been in my garage for a while. Now that I got my Trimble working I don't think I'll ever do anything with it. So I'm offering it up here. Contac

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup

Like $100 for 5370B and the only thing wrong was the oscillator switch set to EXTernal. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Feher Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 5:33 PM To: 'Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement' Subject: Re:

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup

"As is" implies to me that you will receive the item as pictured. Not necessarily guaranteed to work, but, without any physical changes over what was pictured on ebay. Some of my best purchases on ebay have been those that the seller claimed did not work and was being sold as is. Better than 90 % o

Re: [time-nuts] H-Maser, but not on ebait...

> Since we're having a lively afternoon (or midnight for our Aussie members) on > Time-nuts, and talking about buying and > selling > gear anyway, I think this is a good time to mention something I've been > putting off for too long: > An Oscilloquartz H-maser. For sale. > I've put some details,

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup, 5370

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hi Tom, > > this was the recommended setup (by HP) for checking the internal noise. Feed > the 10MHz output back to the input using a short cable, and set the unit for > "COMMON" input, setting 50 Ohm impedance etc. > > In the meantime I did some more tests, and f

Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB hint

Of course you're right, John. I built a general 488 script interface on top of his controller, and the commands are slightly expanded. I'm used to mine, and got them confused. So I do: ++auto 0 at the start. Then ++read for each read from each device. Gerry K7ATS >Message: 5 >Date: Sat, 9 Jun 200

[time-nuts] ebay: phoenix electronics/nachtengel f**k up.

i read your ebay adventures and can't hold back to tell you mine: i won the auction on a 5062 power supply to accompany my old 5061 a/b cesiums. glad that that thing cost me just 100 USD i was told i had to pay 50 USD for packing and handling, 380 USD for shipping alone. ok i thought - its a r

[time-nuts] H-Maser, but not on ebait...

Since we're having a lively afternoon (or midnight for our Aussie members) on Time-nuts, and talking about buying and selling gear anyway, I think this is a good time to mention something I've been putting off for too long: An Oscilloquartz H-maser. For sale. I've put some details, pictures and

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup, 5370

Note that while the resolution spec is 20 ps, HP's jitter spec is 100 ps, so anything under that is fair game. I will confess that I have never understood how it's meaningful to specify a single-shot resolution figure that is 5x better than the instrument's specified jitter. 10-15 ps is about wha

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup

In a message dated 6/9/2007 13:16:12 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >What's their batting average? Do they recognize heavy instruments >and/or do anything special when they see handles? Hi Hmurray, don't know. I always totally overpack the stuff I sell myself, and nev

[time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB Controller firmware update - version 4.60

Hello all, Firmware version 4.60 is now available at http://www.prologix.biz . Thanks to Gerry G, John M., and Didier J. for their help in testing this version! Rest of the website will be updated soon to better document the new, and old, commands (I know, I kno

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup

The answer is simple ... Packing = $$$, right off the bottom line. Since most, if not all electronics on e-Pay is sold "as-is", the seller has no reason to be concerned with the item arriving safely. Only his conscience, which, sadly, in the case of most sellers is non-existent. Don't blame the U

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup

In a message dated 6/9/2007 12:14:16 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >I've had other similar instances, where the feedback I gave (or did not >give), was a result of possible retaliation. Hi David, there are some things one can do: * Do a mutual removal of feedbac

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup, 5370

In a message dated 6/9/2007 08:26:06 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >Many of us have 5370; can you describe exactly the setup >you're using so we can make apples-apples comparisons. >What source, what cable, what connectors, switch settings, >int/ext ref, etc. >/tvb H

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup

> Don't know why it's so difficult for folks to overpack. Worst case, > one can have it professionally packed at MailBoxes etc. or the like. What's their batting average? Do they recognize heavy instruments and/or do anything special when they see handles? -- These are my opinions, not ne

Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB hint

I assume you just mean ++auto 0 followed by ++read, right? There's no ++aread command in the 4.4 firmware. -- john, KE5FX > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Behalf Of Jack Hudler > Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 12:46 PM > To: 'Discussion of precise

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup

In a message dated 6/9/2007 05:20:19 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >You may want to run it through the cal because there are a lot of things >that can go wrong without providing obvious clues on these counters. >Didier Hi John, Didier, thanks for the feedback! I g

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup

In a message dated 6/9/2007 04:59:13 Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: >Bubble wrap is ok for light little things, but not for heavy pieces of test >equipment. They need carefully fitted dense foam, and double boxing. >-Chuck Harris Hi Chuck, on the HP stuff (5370B etc)

Re: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB hint

++aread ... this issue (multiple devices talking) is what kept me from trying USB/GPIB. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of GerryG Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 12:10 PM To: time-nuts@febo.com Subject: [time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB hint A prev

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup

Apropos the conversation: Techrecovery sold me a 5370a that was toast. The customer service guy gave me a runaround for six weeks trying to first get another instrument and after I gave that up as a lost cause, then a refund. I had to threaten to get MasterCard involved. My MO is to give the feed

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup

John Miles wrote: > I suppose the "Item as described" field could encompass packaging, but it > seems too vague. Ultimately, people (including myself) need to grow a pair > and start leaving neutral/negative feedback for sellers who pack carelessly > and/or deliver items that aren't the exact unit

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup

> > It would be nice if I could grow a pair to leave the clueless or > > those who leave it to the "UPS store" a negative feedback, but so > > far I haven't. Yes, those who are clueless don't necessarily deserve > > positive feedback. But they didn't set out to be evil. > > > > It thoroughly hurts

Re: [time-nuts] solar flares and cesium drift

The GPS data doesn't show any odd drifts: http://tf.nist.gov/service/gpstrace.htm Jason -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of michael taylor Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 11:07 PM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup

Tim Shoppa wrote: > "John Miles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I sent a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] asking them to please consider adding a >> "Packaging" category to their new detailed seller ratings feature. Everyone >> here who uses eBay should do the same. Point out that a seller could excel

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup

"John Miles" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I sent a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] asking them to please consider adding a > "Packaging" category to their new detailed seller ratings feature. Everyone > here who uses eBay should do the same. Point out that a seller could excel > in all of the existi

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup

I sent a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] asking them to please consider adding a "Packaging" category to their new detailed seller ratings feature. Everyone here who uses eBay should do the same. Point out that a seller could excel in all of the existing categories but still wreck the item due to ne

Re: [time-nuts] A Prologix GPIB-USB hint

I've also updated my Win32 configurator applet for this command (see PROLOGIX.EXE in www.ke5fx.com/gpib/setup.exe). When you turn "Auto read after write" off, the "Manual read" button and its associated timeout field become available. Should be handy for debugging or rehearsing what you want your

[time-nuts] Prologix GPIB-USB hint

A previous post had, >Some GPIB instruments will complain if addressed to talk when they have not >been asked about anything. The HP6626A Power Supply is my present instance I've got a half-dozen devices on the bus, and the behavior of ++auto 1 was an issue. While it's convenient for continous re

Re: [time-nuts] Connection Info Wiltron 610C-MS-1042 Xtal Oscillator?

Hi Rex: Yes, although I was hoping for a precision oscillator. There are crystals at 1, 10, 50 and 100 MHz each with a trimmer cap. 20 Volts negative ground for power and NPN transistors. So far I haven't figured out the ground or the interconnection of all the solder posts. Maybe some type o

Re: [time-nuts] Connection Info Wiltron 610C-MS-1042 Xtal Oscillator?

Brooke, If you have not, you might try the fairly new Wiltron/Yahoo users group. Had At 12:21 AM 6/9/2007, you wrote: >Hi: > >Looking for connection and any other information about this oscillator. >Has one coax cable w/BNC and 6 solder terminals. >Inside looks like 1960s solid state parts. T

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup, 5370

> I got my unit today, and the left handle is almost broken off. He didn't use > bubblewrap :( If you guys order from him, make sure to require him to use > 1.5 - 2 inches of bubblewrap all around the unit. > > The standard deviation of a 15ns cable-delayed signal is measured as 50ps in > 10

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup

Yeah, I once had a huge switch (8U-10U I think, very heavy item) that some guy threw in a thin cardboard box using only foam peanuts and those small foam packs. The box was coming apart at the seams leaking peanuts as the driver carried it to the door. The little foam packs were smashed flat, total

Re: [time-nuts] Galileo funding (bailout)

So true, so true. It's funny seeing some GOES receivers & antennas still being listed on eBay for hundreds of dollars when they have no signal to receive. Something I've always wondered about the ACTS system, is there any public code so that a person could run their own local ACTS server? I don'

Re: [time-nuts] A Prologix GPIB-USB hint

Thank you Paul for the hint! We shall add that to the help doc. The upgrade that Didier mentioned will be ready for public release very soon and will be posted on prologix.biz. Regards, Abdul -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Didier Juges

Re: [time-nuts] A Prologix GPIB-USB hint

Poul, This has been fixed in the most recent release. Abdul added a ++read command that gets a single reading and then turns TALK off the instrument. I have not actually tried it, but I have received it from Abdul a week or 2 ago. The firmware isd easy to upgrade. Give him a call. Didier ---

Re: [time-nuts] Galileo funding (bailout)

In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Jack Hudler" writes: >I was referring to the test-equipment they accumulated. The only people who have actually done any real hardware related work are all private companies or universities, they have not bought the entire Agilent catalogue just for this and they'

Re: [time-nuts] Galileo funding (bailout)

I was referring to the test-equipment they accumulated. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Poul-Henning Kamp Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 1:18 AM To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Galileo fundin

[time-nuts] A Prologix GPIB-USB hint

I spent the better part of an afternoon trying to figure this bit out, so to save somebody else the time: Some GPIB instruments will complain if addressed to talk when they have not been asked about anything. The HP6626A Power Supply is my present instance. The Prologix GPIB-USB has the "++auto

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup

Hi Said, Good! But upsetting when sellers do not do their due diligence to properly pack and therefore damage equipment that would have been just fine. I was very upset, and at the end very lucky when I bought my 8657B, which was shipped bare in a large box with what must have been not more th

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > In a message dated 6/8/2007 19:08:28 Pacific Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > >> bought a 5370B from this seller a few weeks ago. I received it ~ one week >> after payment. Other than very poor packaging, the transaction was fine. > > > > Yup, th

Re: [time-nuts] another Ebay mixup

[EMAIL PROTECTED] said the following on 06/09/2007 02:06 AM: > The standard deviation of a 15ns cable-delayed signal is measured as 50ps in > 100 averages. > > Is that a good number for these units? I was expecting <20ps. When I do cable measurements, I normally see around 35 to 40 ps over 1

Re: [time-nuts] solar flares and cesium drift

Hi all, it seems this one is sorted out now, though i am not sure what the final decision wasI guess you thought it was was Loran chain drift. For reference this site at Colorado Univ plots the index Dst which is a measure of the disturbance to the geomagnetic field by electrons/ions trapped in

Re: [time-nuts] Galileo funding (bailout)

From: "Rob Kimberley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Galileo funding (bailout) Date: Sat, 9 Jun 2007 08:50:21 +0100 Message-ID: > Right from the first announcement of a PPP (Public Private Partnership) to > fund this project, I queried the wisdom against a freely available GPS > sys

Re: [time-nuts] Connection Info Wiltron 610C-MS-1042 Xtal Oscillator?

On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 00:21:54 -0700, Brooke Clarke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Hi: > >Looking for connection and any other information about this oscillator. >Has one coax cable w/BNC and 6 solder terminals. >Inside looks like 1960s solid state parts. Two printed circuit boards each >with two cry

Re: [time-nuts] Galileo funding (bailout)

Right from the first announcement of a PPP (Public Private Partnership) to fund this project, I queried the wisdom against a freely available GPS system. I was ridiculed by quite a lot of people about my "negativity". We will wait and see Rob K -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTE

[time-nuts] Connection Info Wiltron 610C-MS-1042 Xtal Oscillator?

Hi: Looking for connection and any other information about this oscillator. Has one coax cable w/BNC and 6 solder terminals. Inside looks like 1960s solid state parts. Two printed circuit boards each with two crystals. The Wiltron 610 series is an analog type microwave sweeper. I'm attaching