Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO control loops and correcting quantization error

2012-09-15 Thread Hal Murray
gandal...@aol.com said: When some other form of external control is used, such as a DAC output for example, it's not uncommon to find the voltage reference output left disconnected and the control circuit fed from an alternative supply. On the other hand, many DACs need an external

Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO control loops and correcting quantizationerror

2012-09-15 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
I did some experiments with a charge-transfer D/A and at least as far as I can see, that has the potential to go beyond 30 bits. The key observation is, as others have pointed out, that we only really care about relative local linearity, the PLL loop will take care of everything else. What I

Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO control loops and correcting quantization error

2012-09-15 Thread Bruce Griffiths
Hal Murray wrote: d...@montana.com said: Michael: Actually implementing a 16 bit DAC to its 1-bit minimum resolution will be headache enough. You will gain a real education in good grounding practice, shielding, power supply stability and noise, and other Murphy intrusion. A 32 bit DAC

Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO control loops and correcting quantization error

2012-09-15 Thread Magnus Danielson
On 09/15/2012 12:08 AM, Hal Murray wrote: d...@montana.com said: Michael: Actually implementing a 16 bit DAC to its 1-bit minimum resolution will be headache enough. You will gain a real education in good grounding practice, shielding, power supply stability and noise, and other Murphy

Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO control loops and correcting quantizationerror

2012-09-15 Thread Bob Camp
Hi If the objective is to build a GPSDO that *needs* a 32 bit D/A as opposed to a 16 to 20 bit part, there are some things you have to consider. The output of your GPS has jitter on it. How much jitter is a that depends sort of thing, but there's always more jitter than on the output of a good

Re: [time-nuts] Z3801 Replacement GPS Receiver Card

2012-09-15 Thread paul swed
I also have a z3801 so perhaps I will face the same issue at some point. The question I have is the following. If a uproc is inserted between the rcvr and the chassis to intercept the init command. Then respond back with whatever the response might be and then simply pass through in both direction

Re: [time-nuts] Z3801 Replacement GPS Receiver Card

2012-09-15 Thread Bob Camp
Hi The only way to find out is to actually do it. Right now the init string keeps you from seeing any further into the process. Bob On Sep 15, 2012, at 2:11 PM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: I also have a z3801 so perhaps I will face the same issue at some point. The question I have

Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO control loops and correcting quantizationerror

2012-09-15 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message 437c6604-20a5-4e05-be99-9e26b01d8...@rtty.us, Bob Camp writes: If indeed 32 bits matters, then instability at the 32 bit level will show up. [...] No free lunch Absolutely agree there. My point was merely that the requirements for the DAC after a software-PLL are very narrow and

Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO control loops and correcting quantizationerror

2012-09-15 Thread Bob Camp
Hi The real answer is that you don't need anything near 32 bits. Anything with a 1.0x10^-13 AVAR isn't going to have much of a tuning range on the EFC. 22 bits will do just fine for a 1 ppm EFC range part with 1.0 x10^-12 at 1 second. With that sort of sensitivity you will have a *very* hard

Re: [time-nuts] Z3801 Replacement GPS Receiver Card

2012-09-15 Thread Chris Albertson
On Sat, Sep 15, 2012 at 11:11 AM, paul swed paulsw...@gmail.com wrote: I also have a z3801 so perhaps I will face the same issue at some point. The question I have is the following. If a uproc is inserted between the rcvr and the chassis to intercept the init command. Then respond back with

Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO control loops and correcting quantization error

2012-09-15 Thread Tom Harris
Second the comments on implementing a 16 bit DAC. You need separate analogue/digital grounds, superb voltage references, and lots of attempts to get a good design that actually uses the L.S. bit (rather than losing it in the noise). What you can do is use a second DAC to offset the 16 bit DAC.

Re: [time-nuts] Z3801 Replacement GPS Receiver Card

2012-09-15 Thread paul swed
As Bob mentions there may be more to it then just nailing that particular command. But worth taking a look after I deal with the wwvb psk issue. As far as the 5 to 3 V I would just use a 3 term reg like the cherry semi chip. But there are plenty of alternates. It will take 5 in and give 3.3 out at

Re: [time-nuts] Z3801 Replacement GPS Receiver Card

2012-09-15 Thread Hal Murray
The could be a pretty huge upgrade. Enough maybe to just replacing working GPS cards. The newer Oncores have 10X or more better performance. You uP would have to introduce a small delay but not much if it is just passthrough data. ... Has anybody looked at the software inside the Z3801A?

Re: [time-nuts] GPSDO control loops and correcting quantization error

2012-09-15 Thread lists
The PWM DAC should have perfect differential linearity, which I believe is all that matters in this application. (That and no missing codes.) Not so when you try to combine two DACs to make one higher resolution DAC. -Original Message- From: Tom Harris celephi...@gmail.com Sender:

Re: [time-nuts] New wrist Watch

2012-09-15 Thread Peter Monta
Jim Lux writes: It won't be state of the art (I think tvb's cesium wrist watch does that.. but it doesn't have the non-digital display you want) One would think wristwatches based on the Symmetricom CSAC would be on the market by now. Surely the prices some are willing to pay for high-end