Re: [time-nuts] June 30 2015 leap second

2015-01-09 Thread Henry Hallam
Such slewing solutions are OK for Google. They wouldn't work well for one of the systems I work with, which uses system time to calculate the position of a LEO satellite for purpose of pointing a 7.6 meter X-band dish. Half a second of error corresponds to a pointing error of 0.5 degrees, well

Re: [time-nuts] question Alan deviation measured with Timelab and counters

2015-01-09 Thread Magnus Danielson
Stephane, On 01/09/2015 12:53 PM, steph.rey wrote: Dear all, I'm trying to measure Alan Deviations using Timelab and some frequency counters. The device under test is a GPSDO using a TCXO as référence I've an HP58503B GPSDO which feeds my counters. I've tried an HP5342A, 0-18 GHz, 1 Hz

[time-nuts] Four questions on Datum PRS-50

2015-01-09 Thread Claude Houde
Hello and Happy new year to all list members. I have four questions regarding a Datum PRS-50: 1 - Is it similar to another Datum Cesium like the FTS 4060 or another FTS series Cesium ? 2 - Is there a list of commands and the data the with get out of the RS-232 port, which port (front or

Re: [time-nuts] question Alan deviation measured with Timelab and counters

2015-01-09 Thread Bob Camp
Hi If your only instrument is a counter. — and — You never measure past 1x10^-10 with that counter — and — Measurements that bounce around with a standard deviation of the difference between readings of 1x10^-10 are ok. — then — No, you don’t need anything better than a 1x10^-10 ADEV.

Re: [time-nuts] Mechanical 1PPS Oscillator Disciplining

2015-01-09 Thread Alan Melia
Hi Tom dividing down wasn't always necessary I have sample from the UK GPO Crystal Factory of NT-cut bars, quartz tuning fork, and Gapped Ring crystals, the latter marked 400cps (pre Hertz :-)) ) I think these are post WWII because they are mounted in IO base GT style tube envelopes.

Re: [time-nuts] Mechanical 1PPS Oscillator Disciplining

2015-01-09 Thread Alex Pummer
yes, Ulrich's [ Rohde ] Father made a high precision clock around 1940, which had an electronically tuned mechanical oscillator. The vibrating 400Hz tuning fork is phase locked to a quartz crystal oscillator, that was the most precise clock at that time, and it worked as I have seen it at

Re: [time-nuts] June 30 2015 leap second

2015-01-09 Thread Hal Murray
t...@patoka.org said: 1s/24h = 1/86400 which is approximately 12ppm. That means that Aging Offset could slow down my clock for 1 second if I'll apply the maximum value one day ahead (roughly). I need to do some experiments first. ;-) Its looks too unreliable for me. If you do it that

Re: [time-nuts] question Alan deviation measured with Timelab and counters

2015-01-09 Thread steph.rey
Hi Bob, Many thanks for your prompt and detailled answer. My question on applications wasn't on good ADEV where I perfetcly understand the need, but actually what could be the applications of measuring BAD ADEV (10e-7). That was my point asking what king of application can we cover by

Re: [time-nuts] question Alan deviation measured with Timelab and counters

2015-01-09 Thread Jim Lux
On 1/9/15 7:42 AM, steph.rey wrote: Hi Bob, Many thanks for your prompt and detailled answer. My question on applications wasn't on good ADEV where I perfetcly understand the need, but actually what could be the applications of measuring BAD ADEV (10e-7). That was my point asking what king of

Re: [time-nuts] Mechanical 1PPS Oscillator Disciplining

2015-01-09 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message df7c7705-b1cc-4b8d-8bac-d471e2ab5...@bardagjy.com, Andy Bardagjy w rites: Does anyone know any other history about that particular piece of equipment? I seriously doubt those claims of precision. At datamuseum.dk we did a small booklet about the history of paper tape as a

Re: [time-nuts] Mechanical 1PPS Oscillator Disciplining

2015-01-09 Thread Tom Van Baak
Andy, Yes, Neal Stephenson's Mother Earth Mother Board article is a classic that every time nut should read at some point. The one page version is at http://archive.wired.com/wired/archive/4.12/ffglass_pr.html Prior to quartz, pendulum clocks and tuning fork oscillators were the standard.

Re: [time-nuts] June 30 2015 leap second

2015-01-09 Thread Martin Burnicki
Tom Van Baak wrote: I couldn't help noticing that Debian just issued an update to tzone, so that means Linux systems now know about the leap second. -Chuck Harris Hi Chuck, Linux systems now know about the leap second -- this is a very dangerous assumption. And one reason why leap seconds

Re: [time-nuts] June 30 2015 leap second

2015-01-09 Thread d0ct0r
Reading about leap seconds for the past two days, I found that common solution for it - just encode leap second event proactively and wait for it. Of course that possible only if device has that option. For example, BC637PCI has a menu item 7. Program Leap Event Seconds. Which I did. Now,

[time-nuts] Mechanical 1PPS Oscillator Disciplining

2015-01-09 Thread Andy Bardagjy
From a fascinating (albeit long) article about transatlantic communication cables http://archive.wired.com/wired/archive/4.12/ffglass.html On the bottom of page 45 to the top of page 46 Each piece of equipment on this tabletop is built around a motor that turns over at the same precise

Re: [time-nuts] June 30 2015 leap second

2015-01-09 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 3:21 PM, Martin Burnicki martin.burni...@burnicki.net wrote: Systems which are simply time clients can receive the leap second warning via the usual protocols like NTP or PTP/IEEE1588. Indeed, they can. Even when there hasn't been a leap-second. Practically all internet

Re: [time-nuts] June 30 2015 leap second

2015-01-09 Thread d0ct0r
This is an issue indeed. Here is what I get from MySQL Data Base support site: Before MySQL 5.0.74, if the operating system is configured to return leap seconds from OS time calls or if the MySQL server uses a time zone definition that has leap seconds, functions such as NOW() could return

Re: [time-nuts] June 30 2015 leap second

2015-01-09 Thread Martin Burnicki
d0ct0r wrote: Reading about leap seconds for the past two days, I found that common solution for it - just encode leap second event proactively and wait for it. Of course that possible only if device has that option. For example, BC637PCI has a menu item 7. Program Leap Event Seconds. Which I

Re: [time-nuts] June 30 2015 leap second

2015-01-09 Thread Martin Burnicki
Gregory Maxwell wrote: On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 3:21 PM, Martin Burnicki martin.burni...@burnicki.net wrote: Systems which are simply time clients can receive the leap second warning via the usual protocols like NTP or PTP/IEEE1588. Indeed, they can. Even when there hasn't been a leap-second.

Re: [time-nuts] June 30 2015 leap second

2015-01-09 Thread Henry Hallam
Correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it the tzfile in the tzone package is not used to update the system time - that relies on NTP or similar. Rather, the leap second info in the tzone files is made available for applications to use, primarily for calculating time differences in the past.

[time-nuts] question Alan deviation measured with Timelab and counters

2015-01-09 Thread steph.rey
Dear all, I'm trying to measure Alan Deviations using Timelab and some frequency counters. The device under test is a GPSDO using a TCXO as référence I've an HP58503B GPSDO which feeds my counters. I've tried an HP5342A, 0-18 GHz, 1 Hz resolution and a Philipps PM6654C, 0.01Hz resolution.

Re: [time-nuts] June 30 2015 leap second

2015-01-09 Thread Tom Van Baak
I couldn't help noticing that Debian just issued an update to tzone, so that means Linux systems now know about the leap second. -Chuck Harris Hi Chuck, Linux systems now know about the leap second -- this is a very dangerous assumption. And one reason why leap seconds have gotten out of

Re: [time-nuts] question Alan deviation measured with Timelab and counters

2015-01-09 Thread Bob Camp
Hi Welcome to the world of trying to measure this stuff … On Jan 9, 2015, at 6:53 AM, steph.rey steph@wanadoo.fr wrote: Dear all, I'm trying to measure Alan Deviations using Timelab and some frequency counters. The device under test is a GPSDO using a TCXO as référence I've an