from a Thunderbolt
compared to using the older Lady Heather 24 hour self survey method? Or
is ionospheric noise the limiting factor so determining more accurate
position doesn't really help?
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of the oscillator directly, so the normal approach to measuring
stability with TICC, counters, phase noise analyzers, etc. doesn't really
work.
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On Mon, May 21, 2018 1:52 pm, Chris Caudle wrote:
> On Mon, May 21, 2018 1:19 pm, Gary E. Miller wrote:
>> Now, how to I tell the Linux kernel to apply that correction?
>
> Have the PPS driver accept the correction before logging the PPS
> timestamp.
Or just have the PPS
On Mon, May 21, 2018 1:19 pm, Gary E. Miller wrote:
> Now, how to I tell the Linux kernel to apply that correction?
Have the PPS driver accept the correction before logging the PPS timestamp.
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ors,
just search for sawtooth:
https://ivscc.gsfc.nasa.gov/meetings/tow2011/Hambly.Sem.pdf
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e, that is how GPSDO control loops back out
the effects of sawtooth error so it does not add additional unnecessary
noise into the control loops for the clean up oscillator.
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values showing the
corrections to the full position + time equations at each reading?
Can you use this data to go back to, for example, a stream of timestamps
and add a correction factor to the timestamps to get improved time
accuracy on historical data?
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potentially
some of the tricks that people come up with for getting ns level accuracy
on hobby budgets could be applied to this to find a way for non-nuts (or
at least not-yet-nuts) to get started on a really low budget.
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hield and build a calibration system from a second
Arduino.
Multiple possibilities that are hard to rule out until the hard
performance limits are defined.
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current time, temperature range
over which the device has to maintain time, etc.).
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to get date stamps) you would have to add the
equivalent offset yourself.
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LED is on or off.
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ack enclosure?
Actually now that I look more closely it looks like maybe two trailers.
Doesn't seem like something that Jim is going to be flying any time soon.
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ood
possibility.
Probably SOIC device, shouldn't be too hard to replace.
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kings of the devices close to the BNC connector? Don't
forget to check the bottom of the PCB, there are a few devices there as
well on some models, but I don't know if the layout is the same on all
revisions.
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On Mon, January 29, 2018 2:38 pm, John Ackermann N8UR wrote:
> The close-in phase noise is quite amazing, but the floor is much worse
> than in free-run mode.
That phase noise plot doesn't look quite right, what PLL bandwidth did you
set?
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ck is
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buffer between the OCXO output and
the connector is bad.
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On Thu, January 25, 2018 3:08 pm, Robert LaJeunesse wrote:
> but I'll second Bill's section about including the power
> supply voltage regulator and bypassing.
Many of the SiLabs devices have on chip regulators, some of those may be
worth investigating.
supposed to
reduce spurs compared to a simpler NCO implementation, but I don't think
you can eliminate spurs entirely with any kind of DDS based design.
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s time
constant. I would recommend using very low leakage capacitors in your RC
filter.
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order to
compare their frequency standards?
That seems not practical.
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ew oscillators? Are they really using layman's
shorthand, and they mean stability and consistency? Or are they really
able to measure all the other factors well enough that they can actually
mean accuracy in the sense of how the SI second definition calls out
absolute zero, gravitational po
values to a DAC.
Is that not DDS?
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are about UTC, so there is not necessarily a one
size fits all single number for "performance" that everyone will agree
with.
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(one sigma). "
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or more than about an hour per day relative to solar time?
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On Wed, November 1, 2017 7:16 pm, Jim Harman wrote:
> The DS3231 has an 8 bit register that will change its frequency in
> increments of about 0.1ppm. Thus you could discipline it to get its pps
> aligned with your reference.
That sounds like you just designed the worst GPSDO ever.
k. Or just use a rubidium and call
it close enough.
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> I don't understand that. Why can't I build a high Q TCXO?
Compensation implies pulling the frequency away from the natural
resonance. High Q implies that the frequency cannot be pulled very far
away from natural resonance.
The two items are directly contradictory.
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On Wed, November 1, 2017 3:17 pm, MLewis wrote:
> hadn't got there yet
Your RTC is not likely to be tightly synchronized to NTP time, so there is
a high probability that trying to use RTC as a secondary time source will
actually make the system worse than just riding through using the NTP
estimate
g systems do not use the RTC for the
system clock, only to get close to the correct time at startup.
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ate as stamping in the phy, but should be a
relatively consistent fixed offset.
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ibly they exist, but I do not believe that a driver
currently exists which could read the hardware timer on a USB interface,
you would need to create the driver (probably after you created the
hardware).
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g with a couple of RS232 converters for
the UARTs so you can connect a GPSDO to a BBB to make a time server. In
my estimation that seemed like the best return on effort.
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; section:
https://chrony.tuxfamily.org/comparison.html
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really nice to see one of these low power, high precision receiver devices
used in a Thunderbolt style design that locks the chipset clock to the
derived clock to avoid hanging bridges to see if the 10x better precision
in location solution could result in 10x lower PPS jitter.
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esired precision that I have
seen. The X72 manual says that the output should be within 1E-9 in under
10 minutes, and within 5E-11 after 30 minutes. Does any of the equipment
you use have finer precision than that?
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was
more interested in the XOR doubler. That seems like it might be pretty
simple to implement since I will have power supplies for CMOS gates easily
available. I don't remember seeing discussions on that technique.
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lop to divide by 2, right? Does the XOR circuit still work OK with
a narrow duty cycle?
thanks,
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and foll
On Thu, August 10, 2017 5:12 pm, Bob kb8tq wrote:
> Next up is the comment that it took two weeks
> and $27,000 to fix.
I wonder if that was the cost to purchase new GPSDO units, or the cost to
have Trimble dust off the old source code and make a special release for
them?
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program for doing lots
of things with a Thunderbolt, but disciplining the system clock to follow
the GPS receiver is not really one of those things.
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ad of the four pin Speakon). UL
listed for up to 250V AC.
http://www.neutrik.com/en/powercon-20a/
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on. I guess you could use that information to
either control an oven or just let the crystal run free and control a
synthesizer for the used output.
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ted and does not imply a fault nor does it impair the operation of
the ThunderBolt.
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ices work
> just fine) it's deaf.
You need a DC load so that the GPS receiver thinks there is an active
antenna attached. I think that is just a quirk of the Thunderbolts, that
rather than just flagging an alarm and continuing to run, it gives up and
won't even try to
n I searched I found an old posting from last November from Mark
mentioning Star 4, but I don't remember a multi-week thread going on about
fine points of connector pin-outs, etc. like there have been for other
surplus GPSDO. Were there not many on the used market?
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a "what" than a "why" tool.
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he time sync
will be moved lower in the hardware stack so that the variation stays
below 1us so it can be compensated as a systematic offset. Basically a
Wi-Fi version of the hardware time stamping that a lot of NIC's do now for
PTP support. Just a guess at this po
f PTPv3. I suspect this is an early version of that
work, but hard to tell for sure since the phrase "1588" or "PTP" does not
appear in any of those press releases from the Wi-Fi Alliance.
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S time slip (recent
error in data upload) on the broadcast industry which uses GPS time to
synchronize widely separated transmitters so that they can overlap their
broadcast coverage areas without interference.
I believe the power industry is using GPS provided time to stamp power
events for analysis
y slightly different performance, even running
from the same antenna.
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e ending samples
based on the accuracy of the sample clock originally used to capture the
samples.
If you need transport time stamps, then the audio-over-IP protocols use
PTP as the reference clock, so you get explicit description of the audio
sample location refer
a processor where the number of clocks is constant for all or almost
all instructions, and is easy enough that you can code the loops by hand.
Code like TVB's divider probably doesn't even use interrupts, it's just a
tight loop where the number of instructions is counted to give the
b
On Mon, November 7, 2016 11:41 am, Chris Caudle wrote:
> On Mon, November 7, 2016 11:20 am, Bob Stewart wrote:
>> Either then OCXO is making up for the temperature change
>> by increasing the temperature
>
> Isn't that the entire point of an OCXO?
Actually, that is not v
On Mon, November 7, 2016 11:20 am, Bob Stewart wrote:
> Either then OCXO is making up for the temperature change
> by increasing the temperature
Isn't that the entire point of an OCXO?
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he connector side of the assembled PCB.
Does the layout accommodate mounting in an enclosure?
And is this layout just a single channel of the buffer design? In other
words only for buffering an oscillator to a single other device for
preventing crosstalk or injection locking, not for distrib
is the only reference.
That document had only that short note, no details on why or specifics of
behavior.
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and
Linear Systems jfets. They are not as quiet,
but much lower capacitance, so you could put more in parallel to get
reduced noise.
http://linearsystems.com/products_details.php?pr=jfet-amplifiers--duals&pro_id=65
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? I lose track). For multiplying up you want good
frequency stability, not close tracking of PPS to correct time, so follow
the advice about longer time constant and more damping to get frequency
stability rather than low offset to GPS/NIST time.
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time
constant parameters?
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On Wed, August 31, 2016 2:16 pm, Charles Steinmetz wrote:
> I had to use two stages of well-designed linear regulation to
> make any switching supply acceptable (at a time-nuts level) for use with
> a Tbolt.
Did you try any passive filters between the switchers and linear regulators?
f by that amount.
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On Wed, July 27, 2016 10:33 am, Chris Caudle wrote:
> Does that imply that this value is not constant:
>>> And if you take the classic definition
>>> Q = 2 pi * total energy /energy lost per cycle
>>> then it would seem earth has a Q factor.
After re-reading "
s out to be correct in a
rough sense then adding energy to speed up the rotation would change the
period and the Q, which isn't a property of most things with high Q that
we use as stable clocks.
Who has a globe on magnetic bearings in a vacuum chamber and will run the
experiment for us?
ave forgotten the vendor, but I seem to recall they had a
Maxim DAC inside the oven.
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ransition, because the "square"
wave still has a finite rise time, and if you have properly bandwidth
limited the signal as required by the Nyquist sampling criterion (input
signal must be less than half the frequency of the sampling clock) the
;= 1 lsb)) to ensure this.
Can't really dither to >= 1lsb when lsb=msb (single bit quantizer).
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one bit quantizer, which has approximately 6dB
dynamic range (neglecting for the moment things such as non-linearity and
aliasing). I don't see how you get any decent resolution of where the
edge transition actually occurs.
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riod.
Can you achieve similar with just a single bit quantizer based on the FPGA
CMOS inputs?
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On Wed, June 8, 2016 3:33 pm, Van Horn, David wrote:
> How accurate is the altitude number really?
Probably not the question you really want to ask.
Try "what does GPS mean by altitude? Altitude relative to what standard?"
http://www.esri.com/news/arcuser/0703/geoid1of3.html
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ot; is an "or" condition along with "makes" or "uses."
There are some exceptions as described elsewhere, so as a practical matter
if you make something for your own use it is extremely unlikely to have
any legal consequences.
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On Sun, May 15, 2016 8
er, and the messages would also be passed
through to ntpd.
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that the PIN diodes were used in the manner of a
step recovery diode, as a less expensive and more easily attainable
replacement.
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ing-performance-specification.pdf
A google search for "how is USNO time transferred to GPS control" found
this document from the USNO web site:
http://www.usno.navy.mil/USNO/time/gps/usno-gps-time-transfer
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should be
cheap and I think the pieces are easier to find than that CPLD based
design that relies on having a GPS that can output 10kHz instead of just
PPS.
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How many usable satellites does the Thunderbolt show?
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set is static, so
frequency accuracy is not affected, only the difference between your local
PPS output and the location of "true" UTC seconds transition.
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esource_synchronized"
flag, some kind of indication that the source of the timestamp is thought
to meet the standard implied by the source field.
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ck
of UTC valid flag to mean that the timestamps were now in TAI, so the
server kernel applied the TAI to UTC offset to the time received via PTP.
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as deltaE/sigmaE, but isn't that also
deltaE/delta(deltaE) ? Kind of like the second derivative of energy flow
in the system.
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r yet to connect my Thunderbolt to my ARM system (BeagleBone
Black in my case, not RPi), so I can't check it out directly yet.
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>> On Jan 12, 2016, at 7:17 AM, Chris Caudle wrote:
>> Can ntpd using a Thunderbolt as a time source run cooperatively with LH
>> accessing the same Thunderbolt over ser2net? That seems like the best
On Tue, January 12, 2016 4:01 pm, Nick Sayer via time-nuts wrote:
>
tem with a Thunderbolt as a time
server.
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On Sat, January 9, 2016 8:36 am, Chuck Harris wrote:
> Unfortunately, LH uses a graphics toolkit that was written by
> John Miles, and it, and he, is windows only.
Even compiling as just the server only still compiles and links the
graphics toolkit?
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er and in iXML as the TIMECODE_RATE parameter.
Sampling Rate: This is stored in the fmt (format) and iXML chunks.
This tells the playback device at what speed to playback the file,
typically 48 kHz in sound-for-picture applications.
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tors on opposite sides of the PCB is still just asking
for trouble.
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t doesn't have a full part number printed so I can't find the drawing.
I believe this Amp patent from 1990 may refer to the method of assembling
such a connector:
http://www.google.com/patents/US5062811
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iples of 50 Hz or 60 Hz.
Even in that case it is better to have the connectors on the same side so
that the high frequency shield currents are not forced across the PCB.
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tors on the
same side of the PCB as the output connectors, and make provision for all
of the connectors to be snugged down tight to a metal enclosure, or at
least a metal plate, so that any parasitic currents flowing on the shields
can stay on the shields and won't be forced across the PCB.
rt yet.
I need to move my laptop elsewhere, but I don't want to shut it down too
early by mistake and lose the 48 hours of survey work already done.
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Platonic ideal time passing at a
constant rate and literally every physical process progressing at a
different rate referred to the Platonic ideal time?
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hy would you not use the TimePod with a lower power
reference? It isn't like a TimePod only works with a cesium clock as the
reference source.
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On Sun, November 15, 2015 3:59 pm, Bob Camp wrote:
> I guess the first question would be - If you have a Time Pod, what do you
> need a counter for?
Or was the original question a slip, and was supposed to be which counter
is good for use with TimeLab software?
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the same as
described above. USB adaptive isochronous mode throws some wrinkles in
that are probably not worth discussing in this context (unless it turns
out the original poster is trying to modify a USB sound interface and not
a PCI or PCIe interface).
--
reference conductor. Perhaps with your transmitter
operating so closely it is resulting in a lot of ground bounce at the
various components on the divider board.
As you say, connecting the 10MHz directly without the divider in place
would help confirm or eliminate that possibility.
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con, 12.8MHz, +/- 2.5ppm
stability for US $3.19.
Searching for +/- 1ppm or less drops the number of devices to 41, top of
the list is Connor-Winfield +/- 0.1ppm for US $19.95.
This was under 1 minute of searching, so I'm curious how you were
searching that came up so empty.
and alternate pin functions.
The Beaglebone Black has that feature.
I have been trying to figure out if having both the 10MHz to drive the
counter and the PPS latching the count fed from the same Thunderbolt might
cause some kind of systematic offset similar to a hanging bridge effect.
Any guess?
those levels
(possibly due to differences in American and historical British definition
of billion and trillion, see Wikipedia references to long scale and short
scale).
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them from the same supply:
"In most applications, both +24 Vdc supplies (heater and electronic
supplies) will be connected together and operated from a +24 Vdc supply"
The internal electronics will be running at some lower voltage, so there
has to be additional regulation in the modul
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