Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B Leds pulsing slowly, buttons selecting normally, PB LEDS scannning and appears to be reading o/k

2013-07-06 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/6/13 2:46 PM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: Hopefully HP Voltage Derated the Cap as well so it can handle our 250V here.. We are across the road from the main transformer for the area so the voltage is highest at our place, I checked the meter box this morning - it is 255-258V on all 3 phases,

Re: [time-nuts] HP 5370B dropping mains voltage...

2013-07-06 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/6/13 5:26 PM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: The elephant in the room thing with me is SAFETY :) I mean, can this be a fire hazard, what about the insulation breakdown on the secondary winding etc.. Most transformers have a voltage rating on ALL windings that is greater than several times

Re: [time-nuts] Speaking of Costas loops (WAAS)

2013-07-06 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/6/13 7:23 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Ok, lets *assume* there is some uber secret gizmo in the sat that makes the unsupervised signal absolutely perfect when transmitted from the sat. The sat still moves relative to the ground. It's speed is a vector in three dimensions (up / down , north /

Re: [time-nuts] Speaking of Costas loops

2013-07-05 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/5/13 8:44 AM, Bob Stewart wrote: Wouldn't a Cs or Rb clock in orbit be slow due to relativistic effects? I'm pretty sure there is a relativistic correction to the GPS clocks. Bob - AE6RV I believe that the original WAAS repurposed transponders intended for other L-band satellite

Re: [time-nuts] Speaking of Costas loops

2013-07-05 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/5/13 11:37 AM, Attila Kinali wrote: On Fri, 5 Jul 2013 12:14:20 -0400 Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: Indeed the atomic clocks on sats are set up so they can tune far enough to take out the relativistic effects. That (and a bunch of other things) makes them somewhat more expensive than

[time-nuts] WAAS/Inmarsat-3

2013-07-05 Thread Jim Lux
An ION paper by Nagle, et al. Nagle, J. R., Van Dierendonck, A. J., Hua, Q. D., INMARSAT-3 NAVIGATION SIGNAL C/A CODE SELECTION AND INTERFERENCE ANALYSIS, NAVIGATION, Journal of The Institute of Navigation, Vol. 39, No. 4, Winter 1992-1993, pp. 445-462. Inmarsat-3, the next generation of

Re: [time-nuts] Speaking of Costas loops

2013-07-04 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/3/13 12:42 PM, Azelio Boriani wrote: Sure about the bent pipe? If so it seems that much power is required at the transmitting ground station... Much equivalent power is required. If you have a 20 meter or so antenna, it doesn't take much to get a pretty high EIRP.

Re: [time-nuts] Speaking of Costas loops

2013-07-04 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/3/13 2:21 PM, Dennis Ferguson wrote: On 3 Jul, 2013, at 11:47 , Bob Camp li...@rtty.us wrote: The pipe in this case is up on one frequency and down on another. The conversion oscillator on satellite that's the weak link, no matter how good the signal from the ground happens to be.

Re: [time-nuts] Speaking of Costas loops

2013-07-04 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/4/13 7:33 AM, Didier Juges wrote: That works well for transponders with o LY one signal. On commercial satellites, each transponder is shared among multiple signals, so that would not work. Ah, yes.. if it's a linear transponder/translator..

Re: [time-nuts] High Accuracy Averaging Was: Speaking of Costas loops

2013-07-03 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/3/13 6:58 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Since the LEA6-T will do conventional RINEX dumps, I suspect that all they are doing is very long averaging on the data. I doubt the LEA6-T is the magic part of the setup. or sending the RINEX files to JPL for processing...If you don't need real time

Re: [time-nuts] The auction site?

2013-07-02 Thread Jim Lux
On 7/2/13 7:41 AM, J. Forster wrote: A few years back, some Group Owners, especially of ham lists, outlawed the mention of eBay, because the concept of selling something to the highest bidder somehow offended 'the ham ethic' that stuff should go to the 'most needy or deserving' as measured by

[time-nuts] Smithsonian Time/Nav Exhibit

2013-07-01 Thread Jim Lux
I had a chance to go through the Time and Navigation exhibit at the National Air and Space Museum last week. From a time standpoint, there's probably not much there that time-nuts don't know already, but it's kind of cool to see cleaned up examples of equipment from days gone by. (there's an

Re: [time-nuts] Regulator choices

2013-06-30 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/30/13 7:43 AM, Charles P. Steinmetz wrote: A three-terminal regulator (3TR) comprises (i) a voltage reference, (ii) an error amp, and (iii) a current amplifier. There is no need to duplicate the voltage reference or the error amp just because you need more current. In fact, they can only

Re: [time-nuts] Regulator choices

2013-06-30 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/30/13 8:48 AM, Brian Alsop wrote: Maybe I read the original posting wrong but I think this thread has departed greatly from the original posting. What I thought the posting said: 1) The already present transformer can produce ~20 V DC unregulated at sufficient current. 2) The desire was to

Re: [time-nuts] Regulator choices

2013-06-30 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/30/13 12:35 PM, Bob Stewart wrote: I believe the original problem was that the raw unregulated voltage may be marginally too high for a conventional three-terminal to take safely Hi Ed, Not really. The voltage is in line with the product specs for a 7812 (35V max), as is the current I

Re: [time-nuts] Measuring speed of light or reproducing a metre

2013-06-25 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/24/13 6:48 PM, Tom Miller wrote: I wonder what the actual distance is using current GPS survey processes? Tom SLightly different, because there are some faults running across there and there have been some earthquakes with displacement.

Re: [time-nuts] Measuring speed of light or reproducing a metre

2013-06-24 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/23/13 10:48 PM, DaveH wrote: Something a bit similar was first published by Nick Hood in 2007. Here is a copy: http://www.sciencebuddies.org/science-fair-projects/project_ideas/Phys_p056. shtml Here is Nick's website: http://cullaloe.com/ Some people use marshmallows. Dave the only

Re: [time-nuts] Measuring speed of light or reproducing a metre

2013-06-24 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/24/13 10:08 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: Using only moderately accurate equipment, like mechanical clocks and meter sticks Albert Michelson has able to measure the speed of light and determine it was a constant in all directions. It was this work the prompted Albert Einstein to think about

Re: [time-nuts] Measuring speed of light or reproducing a metre

2013-06-24 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/24/13 5:21 AM, Brian Alsop wrote: The time issue was effectively eliminated by the Michaelson-Morley interferometer. One used a monochromatic light and an array of mirrors which split the light in opposite directions around the track. The two beams were recombined and an interference

Re: [time-nuts] Measuring speed of light or reproducing a metre

2013-06-24 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/24/13 2:26 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Mon, Jun 24, 2013 at 1:55 PM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: On 6/24/13 10:08 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: Isn't that the Fizeau technique, which antedates Michelson's? Michelson got the precision good enough that it finally put

Re: [time-nuts] tube GPS receivers

2013-06-24 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/24/13 3:01 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi I'm not so sure that slow would work. With all the sat's moving various directions all the time, I suspect you need to do a solution fairly quickly. If you don't the stale data messes up the solution. Also you need the correlators to work fast enough to

Re: [time-nuts] Measuring speed of light or reproducing a metre

2013-06-24 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/24/13 4:16 PM, jmfranke wrote: The tuning fork was used with a clock. The clock was checked against astronomical measurements. http://www.schoolphysics.co.uk/age16-19/Wave%20properties/Wave%20properties/text/Speed_of%20light/index.html

Re: [time-nuts] tube GPS receivers

2013-06-23 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/23/13 10:47 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: Magnetic cores were not invented until the 1950's and realy cam into use as tubes were beibg replaced by SS. But there isnot reason yu can't build a tube computer with core memory. I have actually seen and used a computer that had one megabyte of

Re: [time-nuts] tube GPS receivers

2013-06-23 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/23/13 2:50 PM, Paul Berger wrote: Hi: The SAGE computers, which I had the pleasure of seeing the last two operating, had an all vacuum tube array of core that consisted of 33 planes of 64 x64 cores for about 16K worth of memory. I was wondering about the Q7.. it was all vacuum tube, but

[time-nuts] tube GPS receivers

2013-06-22 Thread Jim Lux
I think that doing the PN code and correlator is something that could be done with tubes (especially if you didn't want to go P-code). I suppose you could use a counter to record the changes in code phase as you scan for the correlation peak, so that gets you your numeric code phase. Getting

Re: [time-nuts] tube GPS receivers

2013-06-22 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/22/13 3:28 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: On 06/23/2013 12:04 AM, Jim Lux wrote: I think that doing the PN code and correlator is something that could be done with tubes (especially if you didn't want to go P-code). I suppose you could use a counter to record the changes in code phase as you

Re: [time-nuts] tube GPS receivers

2013-06-22 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/22/13 4:38 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: electromechanical.. like omega receivers. rotary transformers can do very high quality trig functions, but do you actually need trig functions assuming you're just solving for X,Y,Z,T. Oh yes. Check IS-GPS-200F, clause 20.3.3.4.3 User Algorithm for

Re: [time-nuts] tube GPS receivers

2013-06-22 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/22/13 5:35 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi How stable a 1.023 oscillator? How much pull range on that oscillator? H….. Doppler is the big component..several kHz.. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to

Re: [time-nuts] Grinding crystals...

2013-06-20 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/20/13 4:57 PM, Gary wrote: A common scheme in metal deposition measurement is to measure the frequency of a crystal prior to starting the deposition process, then monitoring the frequency shift of the crystal as the metal is sputtered. I was told crystals are tuned this way at the

Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure

2013-06-17 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/17/13 5:33 AM, Peter Gottlieb wrote: The current distortion from simple transformer-rectifier-capacitor power supplies contains a lot of third harmonic content. In a 3 phase system (as are all distribution systems for commercial and industrial) the third harmonic ADDS in the neutral, or

Re: [time-nuts] HP and other equipment failure

2013-06-17 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/17/13 10:39 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message 51bf15a8.40...@earthlink.net, Jim Lux writes: The issue also arises with fluorescent [...] As folks transitioned to the newer ballasts, the non-sinusoidal current problem probably got worse. I don't know about US, but in EU

Re: [time-nuts] Neat little cesium box

2013-06-14 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/14/13 10:55 AM, DaveH wrote: Most RTG sources use Plutonium 238 or Strontium 90. Primary decay component is Alpha particles which can be stopped dead by a few mm of shielding. Good article on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator Dave but not

Re: [time-nuts] Unit tests for time calculations

2013-06-09 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/9/13 8:29 PM, Bill Hawkins wrote: Hi, Thanks in advance. Since this is a list for precise things, could you make your questions more precise? What sort of test cases? What sort of calculations? Do you mean conversions? What do you mean by catching an error - where would you

Re: [time-nuts] SV 27 Not OK

2013-06-04 Thread Jim Lux
And we received signals from it on ISS at 1400Z this morning (we've got an experimental software defined receiver doing a 48 hour test right now). Shiny, new satellite only a few weeks old: I guess it works. At least we were able to lock. It's still being commissioned, so it's presumably

Re: [time-nuts] have 10MHz need 19.5Mhz

2013-06-02 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/2/13 11:59 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: Recent talk about NTP servers. It seems the limit to their accuracy is the quality of the crystal that drives the CPU clock. Most of them make really good thermometers. I'd like to try and replace the crystal on a Raspberry Pi with a signal derived

Re: [time-nuts] Cheap 9.8Mhz Sa.22c's

2013-06-02 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/2/13 12:52 PM, WB6BNQ wrote: Hello Mark and crowd, I own one of these and I can guarantee that it CANNOT be moved without changing the crystal, tweaking a micro-minature coil value, and changing the firmware. And NO !, the company would NOT send out the firmware needed. However, if you

Re: [time-nuts] GRAIL USO

2013-06-01 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/1/13 8:49 AM, Attila Kinali wrote: On Tue, 28 May 2013 20:23:06 -0700 Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: The USO's we got for GRAIL from APL have ADEV1E-13 from 1 to 1000 seconds, and then heads up at 1 decade/decade. The lowest ADEV is about 5E-14 at around 50 seconds, but it's pretty

Re: [time-nuts] Looking for datasheet for Oscilloquartz 8602

2013-06-01 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/1/13 10:35 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Both suffer from people talking about levels (-120 dbc or 1x10^-11) without mentioning the offset or tau. Since both are highly dependent on the offset or tau that's not a good thing. My observation is that ADEV is much more likely to be mentioned without

Re: [time-nuts] Looking for datasheet for Oscilloquartz 8602

2013-06-01 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/1/13 1:46 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi For ADEV, a lot of oscillators have a sort of floor where the ADEV is relatively constant, say from tau in the range10-1000 seconds, and then it rises up (from thermal effects and such), so the shorthand is that the number quoted is that floor value You

Re: [time-nuts] Traceability after loss of LORAN and WWVB

2013-06-01 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/1/13 12:02 PM, Scott McGrath wrote: True However with LORAN and to a lesser extent WWVB traceability process was well/known and documented and had been in place for decades and was easy to implement correctly With GPS not so much especially with S/A. Supposedly the new satellites don't

Re: [time-nuts] Traceability after loss of LORAN and WWVB

2013-06-01 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/1/13 2:51 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: On 06/01/2013 11:27 PM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi On Jun 1, 2013, at 3:34 PM, Magnus Danielsonmag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: On 06/01/2013 09:02 PM, Scott McGrath wrote: True However with LORAN and to a lesser extent WWVB traceability process was

Re: [time-nuts] Traceability after loss of LORAN and WWVB

2013-06-01 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/1/13 4:46 PM, Bob Camp wrote: That is, NIST certifies publicly that WWV is on frequency and on time with a certain precision. Do I need to go to NIST and pay them to give ma piece of paper that says this, or can I use their published data? Remember - the original post (and thus the

Re: [time-nuts] GRAIL USO

2013-06-01 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/1/13 4:50 PM, Hal Murray wrote: jim...@earthlink.net said: It's also the knowledge of the process yield at each step which means you can stay in business. APL knows how many to start at the beginning to insure they'll have 4 at the end, 2 years later. I assume there is a

Re: [time-nuts] Looking for datasheet for Oscilloquartz 8602

2013-06-01 Thread Jim Lux
On 6/1/13 4:52 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: So, what was your engineering question, really? responding to Bob's comment that people just say ADEV 1E-15 without specifying a tau. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe,

Re: [time-nuts] 8566B with Ovenaire 10Mhz oven.

2013-05-29 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/29/13 7:37 AM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: My 3585 is like that too, Unlocked messages until it warms up. Unless you leave it plugged in, it must keep the oven warm while on standby. I wonder if this is the case for the 8566 too? yes.. most of those instruments have a standby where the oven

Re: [time-nuts] Looking for datasheet for Oscilloquartz 8602

2013-05-28 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/28/13 9:29 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi The cost of a BVA oscillator is primarily a function of the cost of the blank used and secondarily a function of the resonator processing. You see numbers in the $200 to $400 range tossed around for the blank (vs $10 for a good SC blank). The packaged

Re: [time-nuts] Follow-up question re: microcontroller families

2013-05-26 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/26/13 9:00 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: But for many applications, the inevitable overhead (power, heat, external components, OS, etc) simply eliminates the gain of having a better/faster CPU. Sometimes I end up using a 6 or 8 pin PIC with only a few lines of code to to solve complex

Re: [time-nuts] Good (cheap) PIC chip choice for project?

2013-05-25 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/25/13 7:22 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi PIC's have been around for a *long* time. The PIC16's came early on and were followed by the PIC18's. Both are a bit dated at this point. The PIC24's and dsPIC33's are actually very similar parts. The PIC33's form a third family pretty much on their

Re: [time-nuts] Good (cheap) PIC chip choice for project?

2013-05-25 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/25/13 10:55 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: 3) the Pi is almost PC-like and very easy to use. Costs about $40 and requires a HDMI or DVI monitor.. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to

Re: [time-nuts] Good (cheap) PIC chip choice for project?

2013-05-25 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/25/13 2:10 PM, Paul wrote: *Jim Lux* S*at May 25 16:53:50 EDT 2013* * 3) the Pi is almost PC-like and very easy to use. Costs about $40***and requires a HDMI or DVI monitor.. A $9 USB to 3.3V serial adapter connects to the serial console unless you prefer ssh or VNC. Once you have

Re: [time-nuts] OCXO shock protection

2013-05-21 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/21/13 8:29 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: The question here, I think was about the day-to-day shaking, not a once in a lifetime event. Seriously if there was a 1+g acceleration who'd care if their OCXO was still running under that pile of rubble that used to be a house. It is the

Re: [time-nuts] time transfer over USB

2013-05-20 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/20/13 2:43 AM, Attila Kinali wrote: Oh.. and connect the whole thing to a port on the PC that does _not_ have an internal USB hub. That's a bit of challenge, I suspect.. A casual look at the PCs I have around here running windows all seem to have on-mobo hubs when you check Device

[time-nuts] vs Hg ion? Re: GPS clock stabilitiy, Rb vs Cs

2013-05-05 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/5/13 1:48 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: On 05/05/2013 10:05 AM, Attila Kinali wrote: On Sat, 4 May 2013 12:36:20 -0700 Tom Van Baak (lab)t...@leapsecond.com wrote: Rule of thumb: quartz is best short term, Rb or H-maser mid-term, and Cs by far the best long-term. Ah.. so it's a

Re: [time-nuts] vs Hg ion? Re: GPS clock stabilitiy, Rb vs Cs

2013-05-05 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/5/13 8:42 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote: At HP in the 1990's, Len Cutler's group built some experimental mercury ion standards for USNO (IIRC). They were of the trapped ion type. BTW, it is important to understand that the architecture is the key factor, not the flavor of atom. When

Re: [time-nuts] vs Hg ion? Re: GPS clock stabilitiy, Rb vs Cs

2013-05-05 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/5/13 10:05 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: On 05/05/2013 06:50 PM, Jim Lux wrote: On 5/5/13 8:42 AM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote: At HP in the 1990's, Len Cutler's group built some experimental mercury ion standards for USNO (IIRC). They were of the trapped ion type. BTW, it is important

Re: [time-nuts] vs Hg ion? Re: GPS clock stabilitiy, Rb vs Cs

2013-05-05 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/5/13 10:01 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: Hi Jim, On 05/05/2013 03:59 PM, Jim Lux wrote: On 5/5/13 1:48 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: The above is a summary of things collected from a variety of sources, but I think this coarse walk-through of issues gives some insight as to what issues pops

Re: [time-nuts] vs Hg ion? Re: GPS clock stabilitiy, Rb vs Cs

2013-05-05 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/5/13 11:45 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: Hi Jim, On 05/05/2013 07:33 PM, Jim Lux wrote: On 5/5/13 10:05 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: They have been targeting this goal for a very long time. Several interesting papers is to be found at PTTI, NIST etc. Yeah.. some years (6 or 7?) ago, John

Re: [time-nuts] vs Hg ion? Re: GPS clock stabilitiy, Rb vs Cs

2013-05-05 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/5/13 2:49 PM, Magnus Danielson wrote: I have all the Hg-199 and Hg-202 I need for a few clocks, but in it's natural mixture. Don't feel like building a separation facility... Use the quadrupole system you're using as a trap as a mass-spec to do the separation.

Re: [time-nuts] Cesium wrist-watch-lite

2013-05-02 Thread Jim Lux
On 5/2/13 5:18 AM, Poul-Henning Kamp wrote: In message 5182325e.4020...@t-online.de, Volker Esper writes: Rummor has it that the single piece price in the US is $1475 for just the CSAC. Weather that's with or without the demo board And for that price a SRS PRS10 is a better buy, unless you

Re: [time-nuts] Time nut newbie

2013-04-30 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/30/13 4:18 PM, li...@lazygranch.com wrote: A bit OT, but back in the day there was what amounted to an X-prize for a real accurate chronometer for navigation. Make that way back in the day. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harrison And he had a heck of a time collecting. I suspect

Re: [time-nuts] OT - but of interest?

2013-04-27 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/27/13 9:40 AM, Gregory Muir wrote: On Fri, 26 Apr 2013 17:59:21 -0700, Jim Lux wrote: Total dose will be very small (after all astronauts live in LEO) So you'd worry about cosmic rays and single event effects. snip They fly a lot of unmodified commercial equipment on ISS

Re: [time-nuts] OT - but of interest?

2013-04-26 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/26/13 6:01 AM, Bob Smither wrote: As many on this list are amateur radio operators the following might be of interest: http://www.phonesat.org/ The project asks amateurs to monitor transmissions from cell phones that have been placed in orbit. Except that the transmissions are from

Re: [time-nuts] OT - but of interest?

2013-04-26 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/26/13 9:18 AM, Chuck Forsberg WA7KGX N2469R wrote: On 04/26/2013 06:01 AM, Bob Smither wrote: As many on this list are amateur radio operators the following might be of interest: to track the satellites in real time. Will radiation fry the cell phones before thy burn up on re-entry?

Re: [time-nuts] Radio with GPSDO

2013-04-24 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/23/13 6:54 PM, li...@lazygranch.com wrote: http://www.aorusa.com/receivers/ar2300.html Just a FYI. Interesting.. I see they use the OEM GPS from Garmin. I wonder what kind of DO performance they get, and whether they actually discipline the oscillator or just measure it. Since

Re: [time-nuts] time-nuts Digest, Vol 105, Issue 72

2013-04-22 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/21/13 10:37 PM, Stewart Cobb wrote: Date: Sat, 20 Apr 2013 12:52:03 -0700 From: Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement time-nuts@febo.com Subject: Re: [time-nuts] pin-wheel antenna Message-ID: EB790CDDE52944E1A03608CA6CFCCCA8@pc52

Re: [time-nuts] usno tours

2013-04-22 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/22/13 12:26 PM, Eric Fort wrote: Thanks, figured someone who reads this list may be connected there... not like precision timekeeping is a huge community. Eric On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 2:53 PM, Magnus Danielson mag...@rubidium.dyndns.org wrote: On 03/17/2013 10:47 PM, Eric Fort wrote:

Re: [time-nuts] Trimble Resolution SMT GG weirdness

2013-04-22 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/22/13 3:15 PM, Hal Murray wrote: dginsb...@gmail.com said: First, the frequency offset of the microcontroller. I use a built-in counting timer in the uC which runs at 84MHz to measure the duration between 2 PPS. What I get is ~84008000 timer ticks between two pulses, which corresponds to

Re: [time-nuts] pin-wheel antenna

2013-04-21 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/21/13 5:18 AM, Attila Kinali wrote: On Sat, 20 Apr 2013 12:52:03 -0700 Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com wrote: For the rest of you: http://www.leapsecond.com/images/gps-pinwheel-1.jpg http://www.leapsecond.com/images/gps-pinwheel-2.jpg Thanks a lot... So the design changed slightly

Re: [time-nuts] pin-wheel antenna

2013-04-19 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/19/13 7:30 AM, Attila Kinali wrote: On Wed, 17 Apr 2013 20:16:24 -0700 Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: There's a very nice picture of a pinwheel from Novatel on the back cover of the March issue of GPS world.. Has anyone a digital (or scanned) copy of that picture? It's kind

Re: [time-nuts] OT: Far-out space navigation from sideways satnav signals

2013-04-19 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/19/13 11:47 AM, Peter Monta wrote: Hi Hal, Why are X-Ray pulsars better than radio pulsars for navigation? My impression is that it's easier to manage all-sky coverage at x-ray with a small spacecraft package (I think millisecond pulsars generally emit at both microwave and x-ray).

Re: [time-nuts] antennas was Re: Common-View GPS Network

2013-04-18 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/18/13 12:01 AM, Chris Albertson wrote: If I read the paper correctly you can skip the choke ring if you mount the antenna on top of a 2 meter or longer mast. Iron pipe comes on 10 foot lengths. The choke ring is for portable survey antenna that can't be placed on tall rooftop masts. I

Re: [time-nuts] OT: Far-out space navigation from sideways satnav signals

2013-04-18 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/18/13 4:01 AM, David J Taylor wrote: An interesting novel use of GPS stray signals ESA’s retired GIOVE-A navigation mission has become the first civilian satellite to perform GPS position fixes from high orbit. Its results demonstrate that current satnav signals could guide missions

Re: [time-nuts] OT: Far-out space navigation from sideways satnav signals

2013-04-18 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/18/13 11:02 AM, Magnus Danielson wrote: On 04/18/2013 04:01 PM, Jim Lux wrote: On 4/18/13 4:01 AM, David J Taylor wrote: An interesting novel use of GPS stray signals ESA’s retired GIOVE-A navigation mission has become the first civilian satellite to perform GPS position fixes from

Re: [time-nuts] OT: Far-out space navigation from sideways satnav signals

2013-04-18 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/18/13 12:15 PM, Peter Monta wrote: I wonder if there's any advantage in combining far-away GPS with X-ray pulsar navigation (XNAV), which is said to be good to a few kilometers, though long integration times are needed. For example, the rough system time from XNAV could enable very long

Re: [time-nuts] antennas was Re: Common-View GPS Network

2013-04-18 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/18/13 1:40 PM, b...@lysator.liu.se wrote: All of the high quality GNSS receiver manufacturers have their own version of correlator that try to mitigate multipath. See for example this Ashtech-document (for a ca 10 year old L1 only receiver (DG14/16)).

Re: [time-nuts] LTC6957 Low Phase Noise Buffer/Driver

2013-04-17 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/17/13 4:26 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi The description from their tech guys is Very high gain front end. It's a saturating amp rather than a comparator. I thought the whole point of fast ECL logic was that it never saturated. Of course these days, one might have very fast saturating logic

Re: [time-nuts] Common-View GPS Network

2013-04-17 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/16/13 9:17 PM, Lachlan Gunn wrote: A few reasons: - I am interested to see what can be done with the statistics of an ensemble of oscillators---in particular, whether the additional measurements can be used to get a timescale that is more stable than just GPS and OCXO or Rb. -

Re: [time-nuts] antennas was Re: Common-View GPS Network

2013-04-17 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/17/13 12:18 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: Another way to ask this question is what is the effect of a small deviation form the ideal dimensions? If we assume deviations of about 1/20th of a wavelength are OK then we can allow about 1cm of dimensional error. Almost anyone using simple hand

[time-nuts] pin-wheel antenna

2013-04-17 Thread Jim Lux
There's a very nice picture of a pinwheel from Novatel on the back cover of the March issue of GPS world.. ___ time-nuts mailing list -- time-nuts@febo.com To unsubscribe, go to https://www.febo.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/time-nuts and follow the

Re: [time-nuts] Common-View GPS Network

2013-04-16 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/15/13 10:40 PM, bg wrote: Chris, Chokering is not needed. Measured quality antennas are listed at http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/ANTCAL/ Or at http://www.geopp.de/index.php?sprachauswahl=enbereich=0kategorie=34artikel=62 /Björn A lot of the antennas on that list are

Re: [time-nuts] Common-View GPS Network

2013-04-16 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/16/13 11:04 AM, Attila Kinali wrote: On Mon, 15 Apr 2013 23:00:49 -0700 Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: the effect of a strong multipath (which is what the choke ring suppresses) would be a LOT bigger than that.. Uhmm.. to my understanding, this is not quite true. The choke ring

Re: [time-nuts] antennas was Re: Common-View GPS Network

2013-04-16 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/16/13 5:19 PM, Sarah White wrote: I just have to ask though... cake pans? really? I can't imagine it would even be possible to modify a cake pan with enough accuracy to get a usable antenna. Sure.. cake pans, like other stamped goods, are actually pretty high precision, because they're

Re: [time-nuts] Z3805A high value PU

2013-04-16 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/16/13 8:28 PM, Mark C. Stephens wrote: Actually, before I plugged the GPS antenna into the second unit, I checked out where it last called home: LAT N 36:01:05.225 LON E 128:41:48.761 HGT+1214.14 m (MSL) Mt Palgong, according to Google Earth Lots of transmitter towers up

Re: [time-nuts] Signal Hound

2013-04-15 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/15/13 1:48 PM, Dr. David Kirkby wrote: On 04/15/13 04:39 AM, Jim Lux wrote: Inexpensive USB spectrum analyzer.. http://www.signalhound.com/ It's not that inexpensive. I assembled a 22 GHz spectrum analyzer based on the HP 7 modular measurement system for about the same money. New

Re: [time-nuts] Common-View GPS Network

2013-04-15 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/15/13 8:36 PM, Chris Albertson wrote: On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 8:23 PM, Tom Van Baak t...@leapsecond.com wrote: I'd be curious what level of improvement is possible. It will depend on the receiver and the antenna. I believe the NIST project uses fancy antennas but normal M12 receivers. So

Re: [time-nuts] Common-View GPS Network

2013-04-15 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/15/13 9:27 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: NIST SIM GPS common view pinwheel described in one of the NIST reports as an aperture coupled slot fed array that is better than a patch, but not as large and heavy as a choke ring. W. Kunysz, 2000, “High Performance GPS Pinwheel Antenna,” in

[time-nuts] antennas was Re: Common-View GPS Network

2013-04-15 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/15/13 10:22 PM, Jim Lux wrote: On 4/15/13 9:27 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: NIST SIM GPS common view pinwheel described in one of the NIST reports as an aperture coupled slot fed array that is better than a patch, but not as large and heavy as a choke ring. W. Kunysz, 2000, “High

[time-nuts] Signal Hound

2013-04-14 Thread Jim Lux
Inexpensive USB spectrum analyzer.. http://www.signalhound.com/ I think it has the ability to capture raw samples, too. (the BB60 definitely does.) They have a 10MHz ref input. The spectrum analyzer has a phase noise feature Phase Noise Plot : Displays the phase noise amplitude, in dBc/Hz,

Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna??

2013-04-08 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/8/13 9:59 AM, Alan Melia wrote: Hi all an interesting problem you may have encountered, I want to use a GPS frequency standard inside a building with no opening windows (opening windows are known as air conditioning in the UK :-)) ) This is part of a two day amateur microwave conference so

Re: [time-nuts] GPS antenna??

2013-04-08 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/8/13 2:12 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: Alan, Google for words like GPS re-radiator or GPS repeater. There are also units on eBay. If not to buy, at least to study examples. The one I have is made by www.gpssource.com but it seems you could build one yourself. It's easy to test by looking at

Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680 frequency jump

2013-04-06 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/6/13 6:08 AM, Lester Veenstra wrote: Any TimeNutter worth his/her salt can do that..right! $100 Presto 23 qt canning style pressure cooker, electric heating elements, thermocouple probes, some fiberglass insulation to reduce conductive losses. Do it in your backyard and have a straw

Re: [time-nuts] FE-5680 frequency jump

2013-04-06 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/6/13 6:55 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi On Apr 6, 2013, at 9:39 AM, Jim Lux jim...@earthlink.net wrote: On 4/6/13 6:08 AM, Lester Veenstra wrote: Any TimeNutter worth his/her salt can do that..right! $100 Presto 23 qt canning style pressure cooker, electric heating elements, thermocouple

Re: [time-nuts] Reading data from Thunderbolt using an Arduino

2013-04-06 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/6/13 12:44 PM, Ivan.Cousins wrote: Here is a related Arduino project. http://www.pjrc.com/teensy/td_libs_TinyGPS.html This is where I get my Arduino boards. I like the 32 bit Arduino processor for some applications. http://www.pjrc.com/store/teensy3.html I'm a big fan of their

Re: [time-nuts] RTS

2013-04-04 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/3/13 11:32 PM, gary wrote: Can anyone translate this to English. OK, it is English, but you know what I mean. It is supposed to be some new time service. http://rts.igs.org/access/ Not exactly time service.. this is one of the entry points to do high performance GPS geodesy. Of

Re: [time-nuts] RTS

2013-04-04 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/4/13 12:51 AM, gary wrote: Isn't this what WAAS does? http://igs.bkg.bund.de/ntrip/about Yes.. There's lots of ways to get real time (or near real time) correction data. WAAS is but one. TASS (experimental) is another. There's various and sundry local High Accuracy Reference

Re: [time-nuts] Z3805A Port 2.

2013-04-04 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/4/13 7:52 AM, Herbert Poetzl wrote: On Thu, Apr 04, 2013 at 02:32:09PM +, Mark C. Stephens wrote: I wanted to have a look at what the Z3805A puts out on Port 2. I can see the LEDS flickering on the BOB so its saying something. I connected up a terminal program set to 96008N1 and it

Re: [time-nuts] Time shown as two horizontal bars

2013-04-01 Thread Jim Lux
On 4/1/13 3:06 PM, Bill Hawkins wrote: Looking for a long, thin horizontal clock display for use above or below a flat screen TV. Tried searching for bar clock and got a lot of useless hits. If you're bulding it.. Arduino is your friend.. there's tons of LED displays of all shapes and

Re: [time-nuts] Releasing sources (was Re: Brooks Shera)

2013-03-31 Thread Jim Lux
On 3/30/13 2:58 PM, Lizeth Norman wrote: What a bunch of hooey. Another so called expert wasted hours of my time because he can't be bothered to either note that code is buggy or just can't be bothered.. If you don't want to release it, then don't. If you do and it's a POS, Expect emails.

Re: [time-nuts] WWVB d-psk-r update. Seems a reasonable solution

2013-03-30 Thread Jim Lux
On 3/29/13 9:01 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi Too much tuning range is easy enough to fix. Use a pot to set it on frequency and then hook it to the rest of the stuff with a fixed resistor. The gotcha would be if the poor thing drifts so much that it *needs* the wide range to stay in lock. My guess

Re: [time-nuts] GPS usable for weather forecasting?

2013-03-30 Thread Jim Lux
On 3/30/13 5:31 AM, Bob Camp wrote: Hi If you go back into the papers from the early 1980's there is one where they used a high gain antenna and no knowledge of the coding scheme to pull timing off of GPS. I believe it was at White Sands, but that could be wrong. One can just run it into

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