Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

Tom I may ask for the paper offline. Though kind of wonder how much sense I will make of it. What I am reading is that increasing the temp of the oven in an end of life tube can indeed increase the signal. Maybe it doesn't shift the spectrum or resonance. That would tend to suggest my funny offset

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

> Never heard that story. You gotta love it: a hot rod atomic clock. > > Rick A well-written, very readable version of the story is in here: http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/abouthp/histnfacts/publications/measure/pdf/1977_04.pdf and the technical paper with all the details of the experiment is here:

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

Hi Tom, That's more relevant text. Thanks. Cheers, Magnus On 11/03/2016 08:34 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote: Hi Magnus, About the high-perf CBT, I wrote: "The difference would be in things like the oven temp and detector gain, both of which are controlled outside the tube. My first hint of this

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

Hi Magnus, About the high-perf CBT, I wrote: "The difference would be in things like the oven temp and detector gain, both of which are controlled outside the tube. My first hint of this was in a paper by Carroll Alley." Since you're curious, let me explain the hint in the paper by Alley

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

Hi Tom, On 11/02/2016 06:23 PM, Tom Van Baak wrote: Hi Rick, That's consistent with what I've seen and heard as well. Most of the 5061B / 5071A on eBay with dead tubes are opt 001 (high-performance) tubes. The surplus units with standard performance tubes are more likely to power up and

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

On 11/2/2016 10:23 AM, Tom Van Baak wrote: Hi Rick, You know the famous 1971 Hafele-Keating experiment with four 5061 cesium clocks flying around the world. Several years later, a more precise measurement was made by Carroll Alley using better clocks. What I read is that he got Len

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

On Wed, 2 Nov 2016 12:04:41 -0400 "William H. Fite" wrote: > I may be missing something (as I often do) but why not just buy some > cesium? About ten bucks a gram for high-purity metal in glass ampoules. No, you aren't missing anything. That's what you actually would do if

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

uts@febo.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2016 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway? > This has probably been covered here before, but, at least going > to the 5071A, now 25 years ago!, all CBT's, whether high > performance or not, have the s

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

William thats what I found also. Now you have to get it into the tube. To the comment on heating. Thats sort of how Frankenstein works 5060 tube in a 5061. I designed a DC oven controller and run the oven hotter. I now speculate the reason they ran the ac oven was because DC interferes as a

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

I may be missing something (as I often do) but why not just buy some cesium? About ten bucks a gram for high-purity metal in glass ampoules. On Wednesday, November 2, 2016, Peter Reilley wrote: > Just throwing this out: would it be possible recover the cesium by

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

Just throwing this out: would it be possible recover the cesium by heating the tube but cooling it near where the reservior is? This might cause the cesium to migrate in that direction and some of it end up in the reservior? Pete. On 11/2/2016 11:38 AM, paul swed wrote: Oh yes and guess

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

30 years that is remarkable glad I have such a tube in my 5061B In a message dated 11/2/2016 10:53:50 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, rich...@karlquist.com writes: This has probably been covered here before, but, at least going to the 5071A, now 25 years ago!, all CBT's, whether high

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

Oh yes and guess which tubes we find? The 40 year olds at ham prices. :-) At least thats what I have. Like your comment as so far what I have learned is that seems like other things going on. I sort of believe its C pollution of things like the ionizer and even the photo tube elements over time.

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

This has probably been covered here before, but, at least going to the 5071A, now 25 years ago!, all CBT's, whether high performance or not, have the same amount of cesium inside. This means that the standard performance (never call it "low" performance) CBT has enough cesium to last 30 years!

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

Wel you know we all love to talk of details. But crazy stuff happens when you try. As mentioned you would dirty everything up. But waiting a year to de-gas etc well what the heck. I was looking at the pix of the ampule nothing is clear to me at least as to how you even would insert some new

[time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

You mean I can't just drill a hole in, wash out the old cesium with some tap water ;-), toss in some new cesium, suck out the air, bung a cork in the hole, and call it a day? Drat! foiled again... --- > Because it's not that easy. We are talking about a high vacuum system

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

In message <20161101115121.998d1e1b073c5a9d1658b...@kinali.ch>, Attila Kinali writes: >It would be possible to make the tube such that you could change the >"consumables". Wasn't PTB's long Cs advertised on them being able to replenish the Cs reservoir while it was running ? --

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

Hi Quite literally 10’s of millions of dollars (back in the good old days) was put into the idea of a rebuildable Cs tube or rebuilding ones that already exist. The result was more people in the tube business for a while. They never did come up with a rebuildable tube or a salvage process. Since

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

I remember when they made tubes in Santa Clara, they would assemble them and do some tests without breaking the Cs ampule. A fair percentage would fail and would go to a machinist using a big lathe to cut them open to be rebuilt. It was very important that the Cs had not been released yet.

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

On Mon, 31 Oct 2016 14:50:51 -0700 ed breya wrote: > It's a shame that they're not built in such a way that just the wear-out > parts could be replaced, and not wasting all the rest of the design and > craftsmanship that's probably just fine. Because it's not that easy. We

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

All of those places are pretty much gone. The last place locally in Milford Ma fell apart literally after the person that knew anything passed away. The last thing they were rebuilding and could make money at were tubes for fighter air craft sold as surplus. I was lucky to see the place and parts

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

Skip I added the pix to your fine commentary. Plus Toms pix. But its now a 3MB file. Yes above the oven is the first state selector magnet. Never ever thought I would see this clarity and level of detail. Not sure there is any way to see the photo multiplier. I believe that would be a set of

[time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

Rebuilding TV CRTs used to be quite common. Slice neck off tube, "re-gun", melt neck back on, suck out air, profit!. A few years back I found a place that would re-gun (or attempt to) the CRT from an HP9100A calculator. > The only "rebuildable" (vacuum) tubes

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

On 10/31/16 3:28 PM, Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote: The ghost of Jack Kusters is now spinning in his grave on this Halloween night. Jack was a fairly opinionated guy and it didn't take much to get him excited. Jack used to rail against people who asked this naive question. There are any

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

More eye candy for the cesium nuts -- the center of a cesium beam tube is the large copper Ramsey microwave cavity. Each generation of cesium standard uses a different design. The 5 specimens seen here came from Corby Dawson, who's probably hacked open more Cs tubes than all of us put together.

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

The ghost of Jack Kusters is now spinning in his grave on this Halloween night. Jack was a fairly opinionated guy and it didn't take much to get him excited. Jack used to rail against people who asked this naive question. There are any number of reasons why this doesn't make sense. One major

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

Skip, Really great pictures that have lots of clean detail. Thanks for sharing with us. I can see that many of the wires would be a challenge to deal with. But I will guess the ionizer was the issue on this tube also. Thanks for sharing. Regards Paul WB8TSL On Mon, Oct 31, 2016 at 5:56 PM, Tom

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

In message <67092a4fd8045729d0aa463bd288f...@blackfoot.net>, djl writes: >Echo, Magnus. Thanks, Skip! Easy now to see the incredible expense of >building one of these! Kinda Kludgy; Love the s/s spot welded keepers on >the screw heads, e.g. I don't think they're keepers. I think

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

Wow. Nice job of dissection, and good pictures - very informative. No wonder those things are so expensive. It's a shame that they're not built in such a way that just the wear-out parts could be replaced, and not wasting all the rest of the design and craftsmanship that's probably just fine.

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

Echo, Magnus. Thanks, Skip! Easy now to see the incredible expense of building one of these! Kinda Kludgy; Love the s/s spot welded keepers on the screw heads, e.g. My really dumb question is, why isn't there Cs plated on everything? Or is the Cs contained in the rf cavity only? I think I see

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

> To enjoy the links, replace CS-tube with CS_tube in the links. Worked for me without the edit and didn't work with that change. (Skip may have fixed the web site names? Or maybe there is something interesting going on.) -- These are my opinions. I hate spam.

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

There's a sectioned Cs tube at the science museum in London, sadly I can't see the pics you link to but I'd be interested to see if they're the same as that exhibit (I think I have a picture somewhere) On 31 Oct 2016 20:54, "Skip Withrow" wrote: > Hello Time-Nuts, > > >

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

Hi Skip, Many thanks for taking the effort and describing what we see. Good thing to tinker around with, if you have one. Good conversation piece. :) Cheers, Magnus On 10/31/2016 09:54 PM, Skip Withrow wrote: Hello Time-Nuts, I recently acquired a stock of dead cesium beam tubes, and my

Re: [time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

Hi, To enjoy the links, replace CS-tube with CS_tube in the links. Cheers, Magnus On 10/31/2016 09:54 PM, Skip Withrow wrote: Hello Time-Nuts, I recently acquired a stock of dead cesium beam tubes, and my curiosity got the best of me, so I have cut one open. After watching lots of YouTube

[time-nuts] So what’s inside that Cs Beam Tube anyway?

Hello Time-Nuts, I recently acquired a stock of dead cesium beam tubes, and my curiosity got the best of me, so I have cut one open. After watching lots of YouTube video of burning and exploding cesium I was a little leery at first. The first step was to make a very small hole just to let a