On Wed, 7 Nov 2001, Payam Heidary wrote:
> That is like saying we need to be parents, babysitters
> and counselors while at the same time be educators and
> teachers. It is not our job to be parents for all our
> students and to build relationships with them. Even if
> we wanted to do this it wou
"Johnna K. Shapiro" wrote:
> I suggest that everyone stop the threats, the cynicism, and the ad
> hominem attacks and provide something helpful.
I think that Johnna Shapiro is correct. I also believe that some people have
been trying to inflame others; I believe that some people have been tryin
Payam, I don't have any preconceived notions about you. I don't know who
you are, although I would like to. I am just pointing out that when we
communicate we do so with about 7% in words and about 93% in body
language, vocal tones, facial expressions, etc. And, the essence of
communication is
At 9:21 AM -0500 11/2/01, tasha howe wrote:
>Now I have to admit that
>when I taught community college, my dept. chair warned me that routinely 1/3
>of the class would fail and to not feel bad about that. She told me to focus
>on the 2/3 who tried, who did their work, etc. So if you are at a c
On Fri, 2 Nov 2001, Payam Heidary wrote:
> Tasha,
>
> I am very sensitive to students needs but at the same
> time I know what their academic responsibilities are
> as college students. Our job is not babysitting. Our
> job is to teach and student's job is to come prepared,
> willing and wanting
At 8:19 AM -0500 11/2/01, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>In a message dated 11/2/2001 5:07:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>Payam, and I ask with all due respect, why are you in the classroom? Is
> that where you truly want to be? Is it your place to be?
>
> So much for "al
>You do not seem to be listening to the strong weight of evidence from those
>who have taught longer than you that they too often held such disdain for
>students and their "apathy". I strongly urge you, for your own sake and that
>of your students, that you stop for a few moments and reflect on th
Louise,
To respond to your comments I will let you read the
paragraph below which appears in my syllabus for all
the classes that I teach. Once you read this you will
see that your preconceived notions about me and my
teaching attitude, approach and style were false.
A Final Note
I want to tha
"Apathy" (on the internet, capitals denote shouting) is simply a listing of
a set of behaviors. It does not explain them unless you (as Tim Shearon
noted) can provide evidence of the existence of a thing called "apathy"
that is independent of the behaviors that you're trying to explain.
Situatio
fice hours or go for tutoring.
> For
> > > example, many of my
> > > students work a significant number of hours -
> and
> > > they must, because they
> > > otherwise would not be in school. Other
> students
> > > commute long distances to
> &
On Fri, 2 Nov 2001, Payam Heidary wrote:
> I am not denying the fact that there may be some
> situational (external) deteriminants to this but I
> believe most of it has to do with internal
> attributions (apathy).
But, do you know. Or are you merely reinforcing your preconceptions with
select
Tim,
How do you arrive at the conclusion that I have
"disrespect" for my students when I raise issues with
regard to student apathy? In other words you are
"adding" your own ingredients to the soup. Why? I have
the MOST respect for my students than anyone you will
find
lto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 9:12 AM
To: Teaching in the Psychological Sciences
Subject: Re: Attribution of student apathy
I am not denying the fact that there may be some
situational (external) deteriminants to this but I
believe most of it has to do with internal
at
distances to
> campus, and may not be able to make the drive on a
> whim. Others may come from
> a background that makes asking for help difficult.
> Some may have gone for
> help and found the "help" not helpful...and so
> forth.
> So I still believe that rat
so forth.
So I still believe that rather than assume student apathy is the reason
for their behavior, it might be a good idea to consider some other reasons
(situational determinants) for their behavior, and it might be useful to ask
them why they don't use those resources or why t
Nancy, where is the disrespect? I certainly didn't not write it in the
tone with which you read it. I can see how you could interpret my message
that way. Honestly, I.truly.meant.no.disrespect. I think they are valid
questions no more or less than why did you go into the profession of
psycholog
ot using
> tape-recorders in class when you recommend it to them?
>
> I can go on forever...
>
> Do you still think none of the above is attributed to
> APATHY?
>
> There is one simple answer to all this and that is
> STUDENT APATHY. But I should
ow many students they actually assist per day
> and how many come in for help and compare that to the
> number of students needing help and you will see what
> I mean.
>
> Payam
>
> --- Retta Poe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I think we should be very cautious i
A question I would certainly ask myself if I couldn't solve the problems he
mentions. Louis always to the emotional heart of the issue.
Bob
At 08:05 AM 11/2/2001 -0500, you wrote:
>Payam, and I ask with all due respect, why are you in the classroom? Is
>that where you truly want to be? Is i
groups and do a lot of text explication.
I have never worked in a college setting where student apathy was a main
cause of the problems you list. My teaching includes community college as
well as larger universities and liberal arts colleges. It is generally too
hard and too expensive to go t
In a message dated 11/2/2001 5:07:43 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Payam, and I ask with all due respect, why are you in the classroom? Is
that where you truly want to be? Is it your place to be?
So much for "all due respect." To insinuate that someone is not really c
Payam, and I ask with all due respect, why are you in the classroom? Is
that where you truly want to be? Is it your place to be?
Make it a good day.
--Louis--
Louis Schmier www.therandomthoughts.com
Department of
Hi
First, I am not completely against the idea that student apathy
might be greater than it once was. But there are other
hypotheses, including global ones like students today do not have
academic values inculcated in them at lower levels. As to
Payam's specific points, here are a coup
Hi
On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, Payam Heidary wrote:
> My experiences have not been similar to yours. You say
> that you give very clear and specific instructions and
> that you find students following them. This is NOT the
> case with my students. You may have upper division or
> graduate students who ha
Hi
On Thu, 1 Nov 2001, Payam Heidary wrote:
> Let me ask you a question. Do you teach or have you
> taught any class where you have to teach students to
> write APA style papers? My assumption is that you have
> not based on your response.
This is extremely presumptious. Payam, if you want to
of a rough draft
> with
> > > > > feedback to improve content, or to see how
> well
> > > > > students can write in APA style? You also
> > > haven't
> > > > > mentioned how you handle grading of rough
> and
> > > final
> >
gt;are terribly EXPLOITED and poorly paid in
> > > > comparison
> > > > >to their full-time counterparts. Anyone who
> > > > disagrees
> > > > >is attempting to distort reality.
> > > > >
> > > > >Now to the next topic
>
none of the above is attributed to
APATHY?
There is one simple answer to all this and that is
STUDENT APATHY. But I should also note that apathy is
not only a problem among college students. It is also
a problem in our society and in the general
popula
the
number of students needing help and you will see what
I mean.
Payam
--- Retta Poe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I think we should be very cautious in making
> attributions of student
> apathy when students don't do what we think they
> should. One of the thi
> say
> > > >about why students REPEATEDLY fail to follow
> both
> > > >verbal and written instructions for writing
> papers
> > > and
> > > >other assignments.
> > > >
> > > >For example, I have my research students tu
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