Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-17 Thread Vincenzo Ciancia
Andrew Sayers ha scritto: What I'd like to raise - how does one write such a database, when there is no clear-cut answer on whether this card, with this driver, works? Since we're talking about regressions here, one solution would be to make downgrading as easy as upgrading, and to request

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-14 Thread Vincenzo Ciancia
Scott Kitterman ha scritto: On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:14:31 -0500 Mackenzie Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I haven't bothered trying to use the GUI with my iwl4965 and WEP. I just expect NM to not work when it comes to WEP. I have 4965 and it worked fine for me with KNetworkManager and

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-13 Thread Stephan Hermann
Moins, On Tue, 2008-11-11 at 02:27 +, Vincenzo Ciancia wrote: On 11/11/2008 Scott Kitterman wrote: I would encourage you (and others, you certainly aren't the only one) to hold your temper and if you can't say something helpful, just take your hands off the keyboard. Being

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-13 Thread Vincenzo Ciancia
If a distributor adds more goodies to the kernel, then be happy, but that doesn't mean, that it really works...even when the distributor puts the hardware on the list of supported hardware. I hope this is not really the idea of the ubuntu developers on this topic, because if so, then I can

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-13 Thread Stephan Hermann
Hi, On Thu, 2008-11-13 at 09:00 +, Vincenzo Ciancia wrote: If a distributor adds more goodies to the kernel, then be happy, but that doesn't mean, that it really works...even when the distributor puts the hardware on the list of supported hardware. I hope this is not really the

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-13 Thread Andrew Sayers
Sarah - this should make sense on its own, but it builds on an idea I suggested in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2008-November/006250.html which you might provide a little background to this post. 3) There are plenty of other hardware regressions by which I am affected

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-13 Thread Sean Hodges
Canonical does provide Support for Ubuntu for You, when you want to pay it. If not, fix it yourself, or help us fixing it e.g. join the irc and point people to it. If people can't help you directly, because of not having the broken hardware, you can try to provide this hardware to the

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-13 Thread Markus Hitter
Am 13.11.2008 um 10:32 schrieb Stephan Hermann: But reality told me different. Stephan, your points about the unfortunate truth are valid. Nevertheless, software quality is one of the keys to success. I've just filed the second bug where one of the Gnome applets segfaults in a standard

Hardware regressions was (Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions))

2008-11-13 Thread Scott Kitterman
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 09:00:36 + Vincenzo Ciancia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If a distributor adds more goodies to the kernel, then be happy, but that doesn't mean, that it really works...even when the distributor puts the hardware on the list of supported hardware. I hope this is not

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-13 Thread Andrew Sayers
Stephan Hermann wrote: On Thu, 2008-11-13 at 11:56 +0100, Markus Hitter wrote: - Allow downgrades. This should help narrowing potential causes of the trouble. This is something I don't understand. When I upgrade to a new release, I always think (or is it knowing): Ok, for the next 4

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-13 Thread Chris Coulson
2008/11/13 Andrew Sayers [EMAIL PROTECTED] Stephan Hermann wrote: On Thu, 2008-11-13 at 11:56 +0100, Markus Hitter wrote: - Allow downgrades. This should help narrowing potential causes of the trouble. This is something I don't understand. When I upgrade to a new release, I

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-13 Thread Scott Kitterman
On Thursday 13 November 2008 05:13, Andrew Sayers wrote: Sarah - this should make sense on its own, but it builds on an idea I suggested in https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-discuss/2008-November/006250 .html which you might provide a little background to this post. 3) There

RE: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-13 Thread Mackenzie Morgan
On Thu, 2008-11-13 at 20:36 +1100, Sarah Hobbs wrote: Take the intel 3945 card, for example. Vincenzo says it doesn't work for him, under various modes. Various users on the forums have also mentioned that their systems don't work with these cards. However, other users on the forums,

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-13 Thread Nicolas Deschildre
On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 8:55 PM, Mackenzie Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2008-11-13 at 20:36 +1100, Sarah Hobbs wrote: Take the intel 3945 card, for example. Vincenzo says it doesn't work for him, under various modes. Various users on the forums have also mentioned that their

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-13 Thread Mackenzie Morgan
On Thu, 2008-11-13 at 21:58 +0100, Nicolas Deschildre wrote: On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 8:55 PM, Mackenzie Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2008-11-13 at 20:36 +1100, Sarah Hobbs wrote: Take the intel 3945 card, for example. Vincenzo says it doesn't work for him, under various modes.

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-13 Thread Mackenzie Morgan
On Thu, 2008-11-13 at 21:58 +0100, Nicolas Deschildre wrote: On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 8:55 PM, Mackenzie Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 2008-11-13 at 20:36 +1100, Sarah Hobbs wrote: Take the intel 3945 card, for example. Vincenzo says it doesn't work for him, under various modes.

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-13 Thread Scott Kitterman
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:14:31 -0500 Mackenzie Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I haven't bothered trying to use the GUI with my iwl4965 and WEP. I just expect NM to not work when it comes to WEP. I have 4965 and it worked fine for me with KNetworkManager and WEP in Hardy. I have't had a need

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-13 Thread Mackenzie Morgan
On Thu, 2008-11-13 at 21:12 -0500, Scott Kitterman wrote: On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 16:14:31 -0500 Mackenzie Morgan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I haven't bothered trying to use the GUI with my iwl4965 and WEP. I just expect NM to not work when it comes to WEP. I have 4965 and it worked fine for

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-12 Thread Vincenzo Ciancia
On 11/11/2008 Scott Kitterman wrote: I would encourage you (and others, you certainly aren't the only one) to hold your temper and if you can't say something helpful, just take your hands off the keyboard. Being angry, contemptuous, and disrespectful won't get your bugs fixed

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-12 Thread Vincenzo Ciancia
On 11/11/2008 Andrew Sayers wrote: I'd like to hear Vincenzo's take on this, but it sounds to me like the bugs here are: If you ask for it, I reply but try to be concise. It is much simpler than that: 1) One bug is there since more than one year (VGA out) and it is affecting many people that

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-12 Thread shirish
I feel your pain, a colleague of mine who was an administrator in my erst-while company. We had 100 desktops and we had close to 100 odd developer desktops switched to ubuntu. We had also made an apt-mirror to get updates but most of the time the updates were not used. Reason :- The admin had to

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-12 Thread Vincenzo Ciancia
On 11/11/2008 Felipe Figueiredo wrote: The kind of rant that started this thread is not only uncalled for, but in fact counterproductive. Not to mention these particular ones are unfair, incorrect and (as noted by several others) exaggerated. He was not asking if he was the one of many, he

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-11 Thread Scott Kitterman
On Tuesday 11 November 2008 10:47, Luke L wrote: On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 10:03 PM, Martin Owens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This list was created to give users a way to discuss Ubuntu development with developers. Comments like I was just joking about you having to know anything make the

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-11 Thread Felipe Figueiredo
On Tue, 2008-11-11 at 09:47 -0600, Luke L wrote: On a practical note, it isn't as if this ML is getting flooded with hundreds of messages of traffic a day. For those who could benefit from the technical discussions and user input, I don't see why someone would disconnect themselves from that

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-11 Thread Luke L
On Mon, Nov 10, 2008 at 10:03 PM, Martin Owens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This list was created to give users a way to discuss Ubuntu development with developers. Comments like I was just joking about you having to know anything make the decision to unsubscribe easy. I'm seriously considering

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-11 Thread Matthew East
On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 4:03 AM, Martin Owens [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This list was created to give users a way to discuss Ubuntu development with developers. Comments like I was just joking about you having to know anything make the decision to unsubscribe easy. I'm seriously considering

Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-10 Thread Scott Kitterman
On Monday 10 November 2008 18:14, Vincenzo Ciancia wrote: On 10/11/2008 Bryce Harrington wrote: You should know them very well :) In fact you were assigned to the case some point in time between winter and spring, or at least these were the words of somebody on the

Re: Do you really want developers to be on this list was (Re: Very bad status of hardware (especially wifi) support in ubuntu, due to the too many accumulated regressions)

2008-11-10 Thread Martin Owens
This list was created to give users a way to discuss Ubuntu development with developers. Comments like I was just joking about you having to know anything make the decision to unsubscribe easy. I'm seriously considering it myself. It should remain, developers should remain. Developers