Re: Proposal to add standardized variation sequences for chess notation

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 5:19 AM, Christoph Päper wrote: > Mark Davis ☕️ : > > > > I'm looking forward to similar postings on checkers and go pieces. (...) > > And I'm looking also forward to the ♖+ZWJ+⬛️ (etc) proposal. > > Well, actually ... > > Garth Wallace made an important observation in > <

Re: PETSCII mapping?

This 2x3 block graphic set was also part of Videotex/Teletext/Antiope standards in Europe (used on PCs, dedicated terminals, and TV programs, and still supported in more recent teletext technologies, even if many smart TVs offer other interactive protocols based on web standards, or possibly embedd

Re: PETSCII mapping?

On 04/06/2017 08:07 AM, Rebecca T wrote: Here’s a copy of the Teletext character set; it includes box-drawing characters for all combinations of a 2×3 grid of cells. 2⁶ = 64 characters, so we might need a new block. [1]: http://www.galax.xyz/TELETEXT/CHARSET.HTM My old TRS-80 also did "graphi

Re: PETSCII mapping?

On 04/05/2017 05:25 PM, Rebecca T wrote: As time goes on, “not in widespread use” will become a flimsier and flimsier argument against inclusion Indeed. This is the chicken-and-egg problem, and you are not the first to (rightly) point it out as a flimsy excuse. Thanks for bringing it up ag

Re: PETSCII mapping?

Count me in! I’m partial for one large unified proposal, FWIW. On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Rebecca Bettencourt wrote: > On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 10:43 AM, Doug Ewell wrote: > >> Michael Everson wrote: >> >> > Everybody interested, raise your hand… >> >> I'm in. > > > I'm in as well of cours

Re: Coloured Punctuation and Annotation

On 4/6/2017 11:21 AM, Richard Wordingham wrote: If "text presentations" have to be monochrome, as Asmus claims, While it appears possible, after Khaled's demonstration, I still think that the use of "white ink" instead of the "white" parts o

Re: Coloured Punctuation and Annotation

Michael Everson wrote: > No. Here is an example of a font available in two variants. In one variant, > all those grey swirls are fused to the letters, and it can all be printed in > black or one colour ink. > http://cdn.myfonts.net/s/aw/original/255/0/131020.png > There is also a second set

Re: Coloured Punctuation and Annotation

On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 01:19:42 -0400 Rebecca T <637...@gmail.com> wrote: > ... and > aside from usage I see > no difference between U+1F989 OWL 🦉 and U+13153 EGYPTIAN HIEROGLYPH > G017 𓅓. OWL does not have a prescribed attitude. On the other hand, if G017 were not body side on and head face on, I a

Re: PETSCII mapping?

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 10:43 AM, Doug Ewell wrote: > Michael Everson wrote: > > > Everybody interested, raise your hand… > > I'm in. I'm in as well of course. > Rebecca Bettencourt wrote: > > > The question is, do we want to add these missing graphics characters > > incrementally, platform b

Re: Coloured Punctuation and Annotation

On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 11:34:47 +0100 (BST) William_J_G Overington wrote: > The following post may be of interest. > > http://www.unicode.org/mail-arch/unicode-ml/y2002-m06/0337.html > > It is part of a thread from 2002 about the possibility of chromatic > fonts. > > I wonder if it would be possib

Re: Eszett variation sequence

Actually, the Berlin street signs are well-known cases of using the alternate form of the German sharp s. I personally have never seen a straight y in German usage anywhere else. For me, both cases can sufficiently being taken care of using OpenType features or simply a dedicated font, as is the

Re: PETSCII mapping?

Michael Everson wrote: > Everybody interested, raise your hand… I'm in. Rebecca Bettencourt wrote: > The question is, do we want to add these missing graphics characters > incrementally, platform by platform, or put together a larger proposal > for, say, one big Block Elements Extended block?

Re: Proposal to add standardized variation sequences for chess notation

2017-04-06 14:57 GMT+02:00 Michael Everson : > On 6 Apr 2017, at 11:00, Christoph Päper > wrote: > > > > Michael Everson : > >> > >> Standardized variation sequences are the best way to achieve this > simply and without needless duplication. :-) > > > > I still agree with this assertion. > > So d

Re: Standaridized variation sequences for the Desert alphabet?

On 6 Apr 2017, at 17:45, Mark Davis ☕️ wrote: >> We have honed over many years our understanding of writing systems, and >> saying “Oh, 𐐉-with-stroke and 𐐃-with stroke are variant shapes of the same >> thing”… Anyone can see that this is not true. > > ​"Anyone" doesn't matter. What matters is

Re: PETSCII mapping?

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 5:25 AM, Michael Everson wrote: > At some point this should be taken off the main list since discussion will > get very detailed very quickly. > I agree. How should we get all the interested parties together?

Re: Standaridized variation sequences for the Desert alphabet?

Mark On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 6:11 PM, Michael Everson wrote: > On 6 Apr 2017, at 16:05, Mark Davis ☕️ wrote: > > >> I just get frustrated when everyone including the veterans seems to > forget every bit of precedent that we have for the useful encoding of > characters. > > > > ​Nobody's forgetti

Re: PETSCII mapping?

On 6 Apr 2017, at 17:36, Rebecca Bettencourt wrote: > > At some point this should be taken off the main list since discussion will > get very detailed very quickly. > > I agree. How should we get all the interested parties together? Everybody interested, raise your hand… Michael Everson

Re: Proposal to add standardized variation sequences for chess notation

On 6 Apr 2017, at 17:24, Kent Karlsson wrote: > One in one single font (according to your current proposal), one can only > have EITHER terminal emulator version, OR chess border version. Not both. > Using variant selectors for the chess border variants allow for both glyph > variants. Maybe i

Re: PETSCII mapping?

The Teletext set of 2x3 block characters also covers a significant chunk of the TRS-80 and CoCo character sets: http://www.kreativekorp.com/software/fonts/trs80.shtml I have been thinking of proposing those characters for a while, actually, and that would have been my next proposal after PETSCII.

Re: Proposal to add standardized variation sequences for chess notation

Den 2017-04-06 03:05, skrev "Michael Everson" : > On 6 Apr 2017, at 01:54, Kent Karlsson wrote: > - some bidi fix [preferably making the box/border drawing characters bidi "L", if possible; otherwise a caveat that if there is an expectation to paste in such a board into an RTL do

Re: Proposal to add standardized variation sequences for chess notation

Den 2017-04-06 03:08, skrev "Michael Everson" : > On 6 Apr 2017, at 02:05, Kent Karlsson wrote: > >>> Do generic font makers intend to support both graphic terminal emulation and >>> chess? >> >> I don't know. But it should not be impossible to do so. > > And you think the proposal as it does

Re: Standaridized variation sequences for the Desert alphabet?

On 6 Apr 2017, at 16:05, Mark Davis ☕️ wrote: >> I just get frustrated when everyone including the veterans seems to forget >> every bit of precedent that we have for the useful encoding of characters. > > ​Nobody's forgetting anything. ​Simply because people disagree with you > doesn't mean t

Re: Proposal to add standardized variation sequences for chess notation

Michael Everson wrote: > Leaving out the de-facto flag of Northern Ireland wasn’t very wise > either, Nor over a thousand flags of regions that don't happen to compete independently in international sports. But anyway. -- Doug Ewell | Thornton, CO, US | ewellic.org

Re: Standaridized variation sequences for the Desert alphabet?

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 4:07 PM, Michael Everson wrote: > I just get frustrated when everyone including the veterans seems to forget > every bit of precedent that we have for the useful encoding of characters. > ​Nobody's forgetting anything. ​Simply because people disagree with you doesn't mean

Re: Proposal to add standardized variation sequences for chess notation

Here is a link to a chess-type board in a garden in France shown in Google Street View. https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@47.1030089,0.3209105,3a,75y,24.39h,75.31t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sb0b73sCdjBaGofBYjXOy8Q!2e0!7i13312!8i6656 One can move around the board within Google Street View. How could we en

Re: Coloured Punctuation and Annotation

The following post may be of interest. http://www.unicode.org/mail-arch/unicode-ml/y2002-m06/0337.html It is part of a thread from 2002 about the possibility of chromatic fonts. I wonder if it would be possible please for Unicode to have a Chromatic property that works exactly like the emoji pr

Re: Standaridized variation sequences for the Desert alphabet?

On 6 Apr 2017, at 08:01, Martin J. Dürst wrote: > Hello Michael, Hi Martin. >> It’s as though you’d not participated in this work for many years, really. > > Well, looking back, my time commitment to Unicode has definitely varied over > the years. But that might be true for everybody. I just

Re: Proposal to add standardized variation sequences for chess notation

On 6 Apr 2017, at 13:19, Christoph Päper wrote: > > Although Michael Everson readily dismisses any connection to emojis, e.g. > L2/16-021 or L2/16-087+088, and hence the Emoji and Emoji_Presentation > character properties as well as sequences with variation selectors 15 and 16 > (U+FE0E/F), no

Re: Proposal to add standardized variation sequences for chess notation

> Michael Everson hat am 6. April 2017 um 14:57 > geschrieben: > >> That's what this proposal is all about. It's a good and sound proposal, >> except for the empty square. > > Do you mean “except for the light and dark squares without a piece on them” or > “except for the light square without a

Re: Eszett variation sequence

Can you give an example of any font which has two glyphs in it for ß? I mean, I was in Berlin and I took this picture: http://evertype.com/standards/unicode-list/seydlitzstr.jpg Do you think we should encode a Latin straight y (like the Cyrillic one) so we can write Seүdlitzstraſʒe? > On 6 Apr

Re: Proposal to add standardized variation sequences for chess notation

On 6 Apr 2017, at 11:00, Christoph Päper wrote: > > Michael Everson : >> >> Standardized variation sequences are the best way to achieve this simply and >> without needless duplication. :-) > > I still agree with this assertion. So do I.. ;-) >> Yes but you still want it to be reasonably leg

Re: PETSCII mapping?

On 6 Apr 2017, at 04:32, Rebecca Bettencourt wrote: > We do have to provide Unicode with fonts, I believe. We can use an existing > C64 font, such as Pet Me. Or, we can create a new font with vectorized > versions of the characters. I’ll help with that; we should harmonize with other character

Re: Coloured Punctuation and Annotation

> On 6 Apr 2017, at 05:41, Richard Wordingham > wrote: > > On Thu, 6 Apr 2017 01:11:09 +0100 > Michael Everson wrote: > >> On 5 Apr 2017, at 22:48, Richard Wordingham >> wrote: >> >>> I tried to read it from UTS#51 ‘Unicode Emoji', which is not part of TUS, >>> but I couldn't deduce that a

Eszett variation sequence

U+00DF Latin Letter Sharp S ⟨ß⟩ has at least two rather different visual styles resulting from a ligature of either long and round lowercase S, ⟨ſs⟩, or of long S and normal or tailed lowercase Z, ⟨ſz⟩ or ⟨ſʒ⟩. Most modern typeface designs follow the first style and sometimes the right-hand side is

Re: Proposal to add standardized variation sequences for chess notation

Mark Davis ☕️ : > > I'm looking forward to similar postings on checkers and go pieces. (...) > And I'm looking also forward to the ♖+ZWJ+⬛️ (etc) proposal. Well, actually ... Garth Wallace made an important observation in : >> C

Re: Proposal to add standardized variation sequences for chess notation

On 6 Apr 2017, at 04:24, Martin J. Dürst wrote: >> http://evertype.com/standards/unicode-list/looking-glass-yellow-blue.png > > [OT] > It looks neat. But I noticed three very small gaps in each of the top and > bottom borders. I have not done anything to optimize display in these fonts. They w

Re: PETSCII mapping?

Here’s a copy of the Teletext character set; it includes box-drawing characters for all combinations of a 2×3 grid of cells. 2⁶ = 64 characters, so we might need a new block. [1]: http://www.galax.xyz/TELETEXT/CHARSET.HTM

Re: Coloured Punctuation and Annotation

Nice effectively, even if there are some geometric glitches in the first complex (wide) ligature for their black horizontal strokes at the bottom (I don't understand why they are partly broken, possibly caused by even/odd filling rules or some incorrect hinting reducing the widths to zero. 2017-04

Re: Implementation of ideographic description characters

What is demonstrated here is how to build a CID-keyed font supporting the the "unencoded glyphs" using IDS pseudo-encoding + OpenType "ccmp" (or alternatively "liga") feature. It speaks about an Adobe registry ("ROS") for some supported lexical dictionnaries, where encoded codepoints or unencoded g

Re: [Unicode] Re: Implementation of ideographic description characters

Maybe, some precomposed glyphs (without standardized code points) are included in the font, and the registered IDS strings are internally converted to the glyph index to them, by ligature feature of OpenType. I guess, the "composition"-like behaviour is just visible for the set of IDS registered in

Re: Coloured Punctuation and Annotation

On Thu, Apr 06, 2017 at 12:50:02PM +0200, Werner LEMBERG wrote: > > > This page should show colored Hamza, diacritical dots and vowel > > marks on web browsers that support MS color font format (currently > > Firefox, Edge, and Internet Expoler on latest Windows 10): > > http://www.amirifont.org/f

Re: Coloured Punctuation and Annotation

> This page should show colored Hamza, diacritical dots and vowel > marks on web browsers that support MS color font format (currently > Firefox, Edge, and Internet Expoler on latest Windows 10): > http://www.amirifont.org/fatiha-colored.html > > No special markup have been used, the color inform

Re: Proposal to add standardized variation sequences for chess notation

Michael Everson : > > Standardized variation sequences are the best way to achieve this simply and > without needless duplication. :-) I still agree with this assertion. > > The distinction between white/black background might be of a different > > nature. If you have arranged everything in a gr

Re: Coloured Punctuation and Annotation

On Wed, Apr 05, 2017 at 05:29:57PM -0700, Asmus Freytag wrote: > On 4/5/2017 5:14 PM, Michael Everson wrote: > > > On 5 Apr 2017, at 23:16, Asmus Freytag wrote: > > > > > > Do you have any examples of plain text that is rendered with parts of > > > characters having white (opaque) background? >

Re: PETSCII mapping?

On 6 Apr 2017, at 08:25, Elias Mårtenson wrote: > > Wouldn't it make sense to get in touch with active Commodore 64 communities > to find out how people deal with this today? I'm sure there are use cases > that none of us have thought about. Since most of the issue is graphics characters, and

Re: Proposal to add standardized variation sequences for chess notation

Richard Wordingham : > > The basic text elements in the scheme other than boundary markers will be: > > empty white square > empty black square > white square with specific piece on it > black square with specific piece on it. > > If the variation selectors are ignored, these simplify to: > > w

Re: Implementation of ideographic description characters

Seems like Source Han Serif have just implemented such functionality? Or is this just partial. https://twitter.com/tualatrix/status/849178587680735232

Re: PETSCII mapping?

Wouldn't it make sense to get in touch with active Commodore 64 communities to find out how people deal with this today? I'm sure there are use cases that none of us have thought about. Regards, Elias On 6 April 2017 at 15:19, Rebecca Bettencourt wrote: > I've completed my unified chart: > > ht

Re: Standaridized variation sequences for the Desert alphabet?

On Thu, Apr 6, 2017 at 12:07 AM Martin J. Dürst wrote: > And while we currently have no evidence that Deseret had developed a > typographic tradition where some type styles would use one set of > ligatures, and other styles would use another set, it wouldn't be > possible to reject this possibili

Re: PETSCII mapping?

I've completed my unified chart: https://docs.google.com/document/d/10RJKTNFZFEww0yRVPzPdeNnyC_PUkAMhn7OVB7YdTFc/edit?usp=sharing The result is either 20 or 24 characters to be encoded, depending on whether or not 4 of them should be unified with existing characters. 14 have fairly obvious names

Re: Standaridized variation sequences for the Desert alphabet?

Hello Michael, [I started to write this mail quite some time ago. I decided to try to let things cool down a bit by waiting a day or two, but it has become more than a week now.] On 2017/03/29 22:08, Michael Everson wrote: Martin, It’s as though you’d not participated in this work for many