Re: Just if and where is the then?

Dele Olawole dba African Oracle oracle at africaservice dot com wrote: Doug do you have problem with African Oracle? It is the way this email address is set up. It is being used for hundreds of mailing list and it is owned by Dele Olawole so no masquarading, moonlighting, disgusing or

RE: Just if and where is the then?

There were a lot of costs and lost productivity that resulted from local users using custom 8-bit encodings. We used to do it because there was no alternative. Now there is an alternative, however, and Unicode is definitely the better choice for the local users, because they will be able to

Re: Just if and where is the then?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: African Oracle [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2004 7:54 AM Subject: Re: Just if and where is the then? Dele Olawole dba African Oracle oracle at africaservice dot com wrote: Doug do you have problem with African Oracle? It is the way this email address is set

Re: Just if and where is the sense then?

On 05/05/2004 11:56, John Hudson wrote: R.C. Bakhuizen van den Brink [Rein] wrote: How well does low-budget Eudora support Unicode? Eudora does not currently support Unicode, but the very excellent and *free* Mozilla Thunderbird e-mail program does. See:

Re: Just if and where is the sense then?

Peter Kirk wrote: Eudora does not currently support Unicode, but the very excellent and *free* Mozilla Thunderbird e-mail program does. See: http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/ But does it display the Oracle's Yoruba correctly? Mozilla 1.6 doesn't. Or maybe it's the default plain text

Re: Just if and where is the then?

African Oracle [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: By the time we get to know one another very well, people will notice some humour in my style of writing. Like I pulled Peter's leg, I was pulling yours with that question. Smiling with you. Would you mind cutting it out? I get enough mail on this

Re: Just if and where is the then?

From: African Oracle [EMAIL PROTECTED] If a can have U+0061 and have a composite that is U+00e2...U+... If e can have U+0065 and have a composite that is U+00ea...U+... Then why is e with accented grave or acute and dot below cannot be assigned a single unicode value instead of the

Re: Just if and where is the then?

, 2004 11:14 PM Subject: Re: Just if and where is the then? From: African Oracle [EMAIL PROTECTED] If a can have U+0061 and have a composite that is U+00e2...U+... If e can have U+0065 and have a composite that is U+00ea...U+... Then why is e with accented grave or acute and dot below cannot

Re: Just if and where is the then?

Dele and Philippe, The solution is *not* to develop a new African 8-bit encoding that encodes E and e as precomposed characters, and then try to use that as a justification for getting them encoded as precomposed characters in Unicode, but without any canonical equivalence. The solution is to

Re: Just if and where is the sense then?

Peter Constable petercon at microsoft dot com wrote: So how come the majority of Polish people living abroad - let's say 40 millions against 40 million living in Poland - is not able of using their native characters - also called 'ogonki' - in their e-mails? I'm not aware of any reason why

Re: Just if and where is the then?

From: Doug Ewell [EMAIL PROTECTED] The solution is *not* to develop a new African 8-bit encoding that encodes E and e as precomposed characters, and then try to use that as a justification for getting them encoded as precomposed characters in Unicode, but without any canonical equivalence.

RE: Just if and where is the sense then?

Only if their e-mail systems don't support Unicode and they are forced to write in ISO 8859-1 or Windows CP1252, which don't support any precomposed letters with ogonek or combining ogonek. Well, if there e-mail systems don't support Unicode, it's not because there isn't anything available

Re: Just if and where is the then?

Philippe Verdy scripsit: Did I develop and promote such encoding? I will not because I don't need it. It's up to African communities or governments or local instituions and educational organizations to decide if they wish such encoding, if this development is justified by a reasonable

RE: Just if and where is the then?

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Philippe Verdy It's up to African communities or governments or local instituions and educational organizations to decide if they wish such encoding, if this development is justified by a reasonable reduction of costs with an

Re: Just if and where is the then?

: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:52 PM Subject: Re: Just if and where is the then? From: Doug Ewell [EMAIL PROTECTED] The solution is *not* to develop a new African 8-bit encoding that encodes E and e as precomposed characters, and then try to use that as a justification for getting them encoded

Re: Just if and where is the then?

- Original Message - From: Philippe Verdy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Doug Ewell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Unicode List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 1:52 PM Subject: Re: Just if and where is the then? From: Doug Ewell [EMAIL PROTECTED] The solution is *not* to develop a new African 8-bit

Re: Just if and where is the then?

It's up to African communities or governments or local instituions and educational organizations to decide if they wish such encoding, if this development is justified by a reasonable reduction of costs with an increased compatibility with low-cost softwares and systems, and simplified

Re: Just if and where is the sense then?

Do low-end hardware and systems exist outside the M$ Windows community? How well does Mac/Apple software [I'm not talking about the 'X' op.sys] support Unicode? How well does low-budget Eudora support Unicode? I'm just one of these medieval people who cannot enjoy the blessings of Unicode

Re: Just if and where is the then?

Dele Olawole, who sometimes goes by African Oracle oracle at africaservice dot com, wrote: Did I develop and promote such encoding? I will not because I don't need it. - Doug These were Philippe's words, not mine. I had said that a new African 8-bit encoding with precomposed E and friends

Re: Just if and where is the then?

: African Oracle [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Philippe Verdy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 8:20 AM Subject: Re: Just if and where is the then? Dele and Philippe, The solution is *not* to develop a new African 8-bit encoding that encodes E and e as precomposed characters, and then try to use

Re: Just if and where is the then?

On May 5, 2004, at 6:32 AM, John Cowan wrote: Low (indeed, zero) cost software is now available that runs well on low-end hardware and fully supports the Unicode Standard, with no need for font hacks or further 8-bit encodings. There is, moreover, a non-zero cost to revising a program or OS to use

Re: Just if and where is the sense then?

On May 5, 2004, at 12:59 AM, R.C. Bakhuizen van den Brink [Rein] wrote: How well does Mac/Apple software [I'm not talking about the 'X' op.sys] support Unicode? Not as well as we would like, although the potential is there through ATSUI and MLTE. I should point out, however, that the probability

Re: Just if and where is the then?

From: Jon Hanna [EMAIL PROTECTED] Knowing that Unicode-ISO/IEC 10646 is a now de facto standard (after being a de jure one in ISO) will clearly guide those charset developments complying with Unicode rules and policies, so that such adoption will not create a nightmare to handle,

Re: Just if and where is the then?

Dele, who moonlights as African Oracle oracle at africaservice dot com, wrote: Laughter: Yes, Doug I could see what you have done, but it does not appear right or look right. It is just like putting the nose where the eyes are supposed to be a bit out of phase; especially with the dot below

Re: Just if and where is the then?

Quoting Philippe Verdy [EMAIL PROTECTED]: For me ISO-8859-1/2 will continue to be used for very long periods. Just updating every PNG file in the world will obviously take a long time. Since that format references ISO 8859-1 it's going to mean that ISO 8859-1 will be around for a long time,

Re: Just if and where is the then?

Laughter: Yes, Doug I could see what you have done, but it does not appear right or look right. It is just like putting the nose where the eyes are supposed to be a bit out of phase; especially with the dot below and even worst when one is considering O with dot below... It looks fine,

Re: Just if and where is the then?

John Jenkins scripsit: There is, moreover, a non-zero cost to revising a program or OS to use a new 8-bit encoding. Realistically, people running machines or using software too old to use Unicode aren't likely to get much advantage at this point by the creation of a new 8-bit standard.

Re: Just if and where is the then?

: Just if and where is the then? Dele, who moonlights as African Oracle oracle at africaservice dot com, wrote: Laughter: Yes, Doug I could see what you have done, but it does not appear right or look right. It is just like putting the nose where the eyes are supposed to be a bit out

Re: Just if and where is the then?

From: Doug Ewell [EMAIL PROTECTED] I guarantee you that creating a new 8-bit encoding specific to the language(s) you are dealing with, and getting fonts developed for that encoding, and trying to exchange data in this new encoding with others, will cause more problems for the university than

Re: Just if and where is the then?

Verdy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Doug Ewell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Unicode List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 7:27 PM Subject: Re: Just if and where is the then? From: Doug Ewell [EMAIL PROTECTED] I guarantee you that creating a new 8-bit encoding specific to the language(s) you

Re: Just if and where is the sense then?

OK, John how well Unicode compatible are these operating systems? Eudora may be obsolete, but have you got any idea how big the installed base of Eudora is? groetjes, Rein On Wed, 5 May 2004, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: R.C. Bakhuizen van den Brink [Rein] scripsit: Do low-end hardware and

Re: Just if and where is the sense then?

On Wednesday, May 05, 2004 5:29 PM, John Jenkins va escriure: I should point out, however, that the probability of getting the pre-X versions of the Mac OS to support new 8-bit character sets is exactly 0. Would the various Indian scripts not yet covered by ILK, count as new character sets?

Re: Just if and where is the sense then?

At 20:15 +0200 2004-05-05, R.C. Bakhuizen van den Brink [Rein] wrote: Eudora may be obsolete, but have you got any idea how big the installed base of Eudora is? I use it too. I keep asking them to Unicodify Eudora. I guess that's all we can do. -- Michael Everson * * Everson Typography * *

Re: Just if and where is the sense then?

On May 5, 2004, at 12:09 PM, Antoine Leca wrote: On Wednesday, May 05, 2004 5:29 PM, John Jenkins va escriure: I should point out, however, that the probability of getting the pre-X versions of the Mac OS to support new 8-bit character sets is exactly 0. Would the various Indian scripts not yet

Re: Just if and where is the sense then?

R.C. Bakhuizen van den Brink [Rein] wrote: How well does low-budget Eudora support Unicode? Eudora does not currently support Unicode, but the very excellent and *free* Mozilla Thunderbird e-mail program does. See: http://www.mozilla.org/products/thunderbird/ John Hudson -- Tiro Typeworks

Re: Just if and where is the sense then?

At 11:59 PM 5/4/2004, R.C. Bakhuizen van den Brink [Rein] wrote: How well does low-budget Eudora support Unicode? Mixed. It allows messages to be sent for viewing in a browser window; that enables both Unicode support and additional HTML support not found in the Eudora viewer. I use that feature

Re: Just if and where is the sense then?

R.C. Bakhuizen van den Brink [Rein] wrote: how well Unicode compatible are these operating systems? Eudora may be obsolete, but have you got any idea how big the installed base of Eudora is? So bug Qualcomm to add Unicode support to Eudora. The idea that an international standard should be

Re: Just if and where is the then?

Afrian Oracle wrote... The Yoruba Digital Consortium www.africaservice.com/yorubadigital might push the idea of e, o with dot below and grave or acute accent to make it easier for font and keyboard developers to implement. What do you think? My opinion: it isn't easier, just different. The

RE: Just if and where is the then?

Besides it requires a special instruction to have E in a font table as suggested by the guys at Fontlabs which I am yet to experiment. But since Peter is here, he can shed more light on how this can be implemented. Dele, you will want to learn about the OpenType technology. I recommend that

Re: Just if and where is the then?

thanks Peter. More to read! Regards Dele - Original Message - From: Peter Constable [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Unicode Mailing List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 10:54 PM Subject: RE: Just if and where is the then? Besides it requires a special instruction to have E

RE: Just if and where is the then?

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Philippe Verdy I guarantee you that creating a new 8-bit encoding specific to the language(s) you are dealing with, and getting fonts developed for that encoding, and trying to exchange data in this new encoding with others,

RE: Just if and where is the then?

[Original Message] From: African Oracle [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 5/4/2004 7:04:48 PM Subject: Just if and where is the then? If a can have U+0061 and have a composite that is U+00e2...U+... If e can have U+0065 and have a composite that is U+00ea...U+... Then why

Re: Just if and where is the then?

encodings? No new composite values will be added. - Peter Constable The above sounds dictatorial in nature. Dele - Original Message - From: Peter Constable [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:27 PM Subject: RE: Just if and where is the then? If a can

RE: Just if and where is the then?

The existing composites were included only out of necessity so that new Unicode implementations could interoperate with existing implementations using legacy industry-standard encodings. - Peter Constable Are we saying we have exhausted such necessity? Yes, because by definition legacy

Re: Just if and where is the then?

From: African Oracle [EMAIL PROTECTED] The existing composites were included only out of necessity so that new Unicode implementations could interoperate with existing implementations using legacy industry-standard encodings. - Peter Constable Are we saying we have exhausted such necessity?

Re: Just if and where is the then?

Thanks to have taken the time to explain. Regards Dele - Original Message - From: Peter Constable [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 12:50 AM Subject: RE: Just if and where is the then? The existing composites were included only out of necessity

Re: Just if and where is the then?

Dele, No new composite values will be added. - Peter Constable The above sounds dictatorial in nature. Peter has already explained that this is just the nature of the current policy regarding such additions. The reason for the policy others in this thread have attempted to explain. The short

Re: Just if and where is the then?

PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 05, 2004 2:38 AM Subject: Re: Just if and where is the then? Dele, No new composite values will be added. - Peter Constable The above sounds dictatorial in nature. Peter has already explained that this is just the nature of the current policy regarding

Re: Just if and where is the then?

African Oracle scripsit: Are we saying we have exhausted such necessity? Yes. And what are these legacy-standard encodings? Those devised by ISO, various national governments, IBM, Microsoft, and Apple, roughly speaking. No new composite values will be added. - Peter Constable The above

Re: Just if and where is the sense then?

So why can we have zillions of CJK code points and make a fuss about a few single code points that must be composed by an ever growing intelligent display software that is also supposed to run on all platforms? So why are we unifying all middle east past and present scripts? Why are the few

Re: Just if and where is the sense then?

P.S. I forgot mr. M.E. who is aiming at the top right now just before mr. P.K. -- So why can we have zillions of CJK code points and make a fuss about a few single code points that must be composed by an ever growing intelligent display software that is also supposed to run on all

Re: Just if and where is the then?

Better technical response than the one got from the guy at Microsoft. Thanks Dele - Original Message - From: Ernest Cline [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: African Oracle [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2004 10:27 PM Subject: RE: Just if and where