Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-23 Thread Chipp Walters
On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 9:58 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > I agree with everything you wrote, but it cuts both ways: > > The things that make it hard to anyone to write HTML/JS/CSS apps also make > it hard for RunRev to do. > > And similarly, the things that make it possible to write HTML/JS/CSS app

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-23 Thread Pierre Sahores
Le 23 sept. 2011 à 21:30, Richard Gaskin a écrit : > The other approach, a sort of "virtualization", seems much simpler in many > respects, a similar to Heizer's LiveCard (was that the name?) which ran HC as > a sort of daemon process responding to minimal events over the socket. If i right re

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-23 Thread Andre Garzia
On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 4:37 PM, Pete wrote: > Thanks for such a clear explanation of what is involved, Andre! > Don't take it as the platonic truth... that was my approach only and what I've seen thru the years. I bet there will be someone that will simply prove me wrong. Cheers and thanks for

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-23 Thread Andre Garzia
On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 4:30 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: > Once again, a truly wonderful post from Andre on a subject he knows deeply. > > Thanks for the kind words Richard!!! I only know something because I've been struggling with this for YEARS! > The approach to translation through wrappers do

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-23 Thread Pete
Thanks for such a clear explanation of what is involved, Andre! Pete Molly's Revenge On Fri, Sep 23, 2011 at 12:13 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: > Folks, > > Speaking as someone who actually (tried to) build lots LC to Web tools I > must say that the challenge is not r

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-23 Thread Richard Gaskin
Once again, a truly wonderful post from Andre on a subject he knows deeply. The approach to translation through wrappers does indeed seem simpler than how I was envisioning, but also poses a question: Would RunRev really want to publish what would be a form of their engine in openly-readable

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-23 Thread Andre Garzia
Folks, Speaking as someone who actually (tried to) build lots LC to Web tools I must say that the challenge is not rendering the controls or converting the language to javascript. That is not where the main issue lies. To convert LC to the Web, you would need what I call an "LiveCode Kernel" imple

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-23 Thread Pete
I don't know the answers to your questions Richard, except that the demo application does resize the controls when the window is resized. As for the other question, you're right none of us have given it a try so all it's all perception for now. Pete Molly's Revenge

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-23 Thread Mike Felker
I must agree. If I want to create web forms I can use a zillion tools. No, I want to create graphically rich apps that are multimedia driven or games. It's great that I can use live code for more mundane database programming as well, but I need the more complex stuff to work on mobile devices an

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-23 Thread Richard Gaskin
Pete wrote: I guess that's what's been in my mind throughout this thread - we're all pointing out how difficult it is to do this but RB have done it. I know nothing about other limitations of RB vs LC but it appears they have taken the lead in this one area. In terms of perception, unquestiona

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-23 Thread Pete
I guess that's what's been in my mind throughout this thread - we're all pointing out how difficult it is to do this but RB have done it. I know nothing about other limitations of RB vs LC but it appears they have taken the lead in this one area. Pete Molly's Revenge

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-23 Thread Richard Gaskin
I agree with everything you wrote, but it cuts both ways: The things that make it hard to anyone to write HTML/JS/CSS apps also make it hard for RunRev to do. And similarly, the things that make it possible to write HTML/JS/CSS apps are things any of us can write today. If RunRev wants to t

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-23 Thread Keith Clarke
Thanks for the response and reminder of your post, Richard. I read the 'first edition' but now understand more of the fundamental differences between LiveCode and web concepts (which I know slightly, but not much better)! ;-) I accept that there is far more to a web app than a set of forms, but

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-22 Thread Chipp Walters
Richard, If it were only JavaScript, I'd say, SURE, I'll take that bet! But it's not. It's the ever-changing landscape of xHtml, HTML5, JavaScript, various DOM versions, and it's about the vagaries and hassles in trying to create actual working decent cross browser CSS. Its about learning Apache

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-22 Thread Pierre Sahores
Hello Richard, Le 22 sept. 2011 à 16:39, Richard Gaskin a écrit : > Attempting full translation of LiveCode to JavaScript would not be > impossible, but very expensive. IMO, when you consider the limitations > inherent in such a task, it's probably much more expensive than just learning > Jav

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-22 Thread Richard Gaskin
Keith Clarke wrote: > But even if it isn't easy, if RunRev don't grasp the nettle on > this, developers who must deploy standards-based rich apps into > cloud and locked-down Enterprise environments will be forced > elsewhere, which would be a shame. I wrote about this last year:

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-22 Thread Keith Clarke
...the issue is that there is currently no LiveCode web deployment module - there's only the proprietary, thick-client, LiveCode Player browser plugin, with its specific OS and browser dependencies. Hopefully, the RunRev team won't replace their Player with alternative proprietary thick-client

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-22 Thread Admin
If only the web deployment module could output to either Ajax, Air, Flex or HTML5 this would no longer be an issue. Mike On Thu, 22 Sep 2011 11:44:02 +0100, Keith Clarke wrote: > Thanks for the sense-check Pierre - good to know that the concept isn't pure fantasy! :-) > > Yes, there is

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-22 Thread Keith Clarke
Thanks for the sense-check Pierre - good to know that the concept isn't pure fantasy! :-) Yes, there is some complexity, but given what the RunRev team are achieving with the engine, iOS and Android ports and LiveCode Server, I'm certain that they could solve this - given the appropriate aware

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-22 Thread Pierre Sahores
Keith, Le 22 sept. 2011 à 09:56, Keith Clarke a écrit : > Obviously, any technical architect reading the above will realise that I've > no idea what I'm talking about ;-) The only constraint to get in mind to achieve your proposal in a clean and rock-solid way is that the "stack's to html+dom

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-22 Thread Keith Clarke
Indeed so - and until/unless they do, there is a big hole in LiveCode's web deployment capability - and it'll only going to get bigger and affect more platforms if Windows 8 / IE10 does go down the no-plugins route. However, maybe they don't need to 'boil the whole ocean at once'. Whilst it wou

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-21 Thread Mike Felker
At $1000 for enterprise, its a bit expensive for me (but I would need the cross platform and web capability). Mike Pete wrote: >I have to admit, this realbasic thing has piqued my interest - not just the >web part of it but the whole package. Has anyone on the list taken a look >at it? >Pete

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-21 Thread David Glass
Haven't gotten involved in the Web Edition yet, but use RS on a regular basis. On 09/21/2011 4:36 PM, Pete wrote: I have to admit, this realbasic thing has piqued my interest - not just the web part of it but the whole package. Has anyone on the list taken a look at it? Pete -- David Glass -

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-21 Thread Pete
I have to admit, this realbasic thing has piqued my interest - not just the web part of it but the whole package. Has anyone on the list taken a look at it? Pete Molly's Revenge On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 3:53 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: > Yeah, it's certainly the mo

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-21 Thread Chipp Walters
Yeah, it's certainly the mothership would have to take on... On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 2:54 PM, Andre Garzia wrote: > Chipp, > > I tried doing something similar but the one point that I could not solve > was > how to maintain state for the different clients. Unless I converted > everything to JS,

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-21 Thread Andre Garzia
Chipp, I tried doing something similar but the one point that I could not solve was how to maintain state for the different clients. Unless I converted everything to JS, then it was basically impossible. :-( Cheers andre On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 3:47 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: > http://www.realso

Re: Realbasic on the web without plugins

2011-09-21 Thread Roger Eller
On Wed, Sep 21, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: > http://www.realsoftware.com/web/ > > Looks to me like it compiles to a binary CGI which serves up the app as > HTML/CSS/AJAX/Javascript/etc.. > > o. That's the solution for LC. > > Wouldn't it be cool to develop a modular website engine,