Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

The examples I gave were purely to illustrate how annoying/harmful bad signals can be, as to explain better why I think /new /bad signals should be avoided if possible. Same as I have evaluated Groovy a few years back, others are evaluating it right now. And most of them will not be at conferenc

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

Nonetheless it's interesting to see how those two statuses have evolved at the Apache Software Foundation. Apache Committers are not only people who "commit" source code (DVCS or not), but also people who are "committed" to the project. Whereas Apache PMC (Project Management Committee) Members are

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

On Mon, 2018-02-26 at 13:58 +0100, Guillaume Laforge wrote: > Your forgot the ... surrounding tags :-D > I assume that people take that as read. -- Russel. === Dr Russel Winder t: +44 20 7585 2200 41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077 London SW

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

Your forgot the ... surrounding tags :-D On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 1:48 PM, Russel Winder wrote: > On Mon, 2018-02-26 at 09:00 +0100, Cédric Champeau wrote: > > It feels like everybody agrees this is a good idea, but somethings hasn't > > been discussed so far: the Foundation already has 2 ways

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

On Mon, 2018-02-26 at 09:00 +0100, Cédric Champeau wrote: > It feels like everybody agrees this is a good idea, but somethings hasn't > been discussed so far: the Foundation already has 2 ways of recognizing > members of the community: > > 1. by making them "committers" > 2. by making them members

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 9:24 AM, Cédric Champeau wrote: > I think it would be valuable to add a few examples of profiles who might > be entitled Groovy champion. Let me start: > > - a speaker, teacher who by their public talks contributed to the > awareness of the language > For example someone

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

I think it would be valuable to add a few examples of profiles who might be entitled Groovy champion. Let me start: - a speaker, teacher who by their public talks contributed to the awareness of the language - the author of a successful framework who, by leveraging Groovy, introduced innovative fe

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 5:55 PM, Søren Berg Glasius wrote: > @Mario > > Very good thoughts, I really like the idea that an award is permanent, I > believe that goes for Java Champs as well. > > Naming wise, Groovyssimo is fun, but not naming material for an award :-) > But we need to narrow down

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

The Groovy Star / Champion is an award beyond Apache Groovy itself, and spans plenty other projects that can be quite remote from Groovy, apart from the fact they do use Groovy. So those stars/champions should span also the wider ecosystem, even if they haven't contributed otherwise in any way to t

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

It feels like everybody agrees this is a good idea, but somethings hasn't been discussed so far: the Foundation already has 2 ways of recognizing members of the community: 1. by making them "committers" 2. by making them members of the PMC If Groovy Champions is going to be different, we need a g

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

@Mario Very good thoughts, I really like the idea that an award is permanent, I believe that goes for Java Champs as well. Naming wise, Groovyssimo is fun, but not naming material for an award :-) But we need to narrow down the name-space to something realistic that can be voted on. On Mon, 26

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

+1 to what Guillaume said :) Common guys! Lets focus on what we think is a great language and let others think what they want! Regarding the duration of the award. I've though about it, trying not to think in terms of annually or permanent, but trying to see what's out there outside the CS world,

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

James Stachan's quote has really been taken out of context, and over-exagerated bu the Scala-fanboys. If Scala had been what it is now, James would probably not have initiated Groovy *then*. But Scala was nascent just like Groovy *then*. It's like if Gavin King had said that he wouldn't have invent

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

The creator of Groovy said "I can honestly say if someone had shown me the Programming in Scala book...". I think he compared Scala with the old version of Groovy he created in about 2003. As we all know, Groovy has evolved a lot, so I never care about others' out-dated opinions on Groovy :) Cheer

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

I agree. The point I was trying to make is however, that the "I can honestly say if someone had shown me the Programming in Scala book..." quote is the one I find on Google, and I found it quoted by people in typical "Java vs Groovy vs ..." threads. Having the creator of a language say that anot

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

I may as well chip in my $0.00 worth. I like the concept, that it will be retroactive, and will consider more than just code contributions. I also think the chosen name should be professions looking/sounding and not be "cutesy". Therefore my preference(s) would be: 1. Groovy Champion (to be

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

Groovy Bright Giants(a subclass of Red Giants ;-) ) Ursprüngliche Nachricht Von: mg Datum: 20.02.18 20:29 (GMT+01:00) An: users@groovy.apache.org Betreff: Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ? Groovy (Red) Giants Ursprüngliche Nachricht Von

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

Groovy (Red) Giants Ursprüngliche Nachricht Von: Rahul Somasunderam Datum: 20.02.18 18:43 (GMT+01:00) An: users@groovy.apache.org Betreff: Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ? Person with Groove ? On Feb 20, 2018, at 7:30 AM, Kyle Boon wrote

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

Syvoorg / SyvoorgsGroosGrooviansGroovers Ursprüngliche Nachricht Von: Rahul Somasunderam Datum: 20.02.18 18:43 (GMT+01:00) An: users@groovy.apache.org Betreff: Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ? Person with Groove ? On Feb 20, 2018, at 7:30 AM

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

GrooVIP I like, it's in the tradition of GString... :-) "The Apache Groovy project announced its 2018 GrooVIPs" works for me. mg Ursprüngliche Nachricht Von: Guillaume Laforge Datum: 20.02.18 11:07 (GMT+01:00) An: users@groovy.apache.org Betreff: Re: G

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

Person with Groove ? On Feb 20, 2018, at 7:30 AM, Kyle Boon mailto:kyle.f.b...@gmail.com>> wrote: Groovy Person of Interest? Groovy Notable Human? Contributor of Significance? On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 4:14 AM, Søren Berg Glasius mailto:soe...@glasius.dk>> wrote: Are we at a point where there sh

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

+1 On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 11:14 AM, Søren Berg Glasius wrote: > Are we at a point where there should be put out a vote for which name to > use? There are several good ones, and a few not so good... not judging > however :D >

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

Groovy Person of Interest? Groovy Notable Human? Contributor of Significance? On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 4:14 AM, Søren Berg Glasius wrote: > Are we at a point where there should be put out a vote for which name to > use? There are several good ones, and a few not so good... not judging > however :

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

Are we at a point where there should be put out a vote for which name to use? There are several good ones, and a few not so good... not judging however :D On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 at 11:07 Guillaume Laforge wrote: > Or even GrooVIP :-D > > On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 9:20 AM, Cédric Champeau < > cedric.c

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

Or even GrooVIP :-D On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 9:20 AM, Cédric Champeau wrote: > I agree with Guillaume: MVP sounds "Minimal Viable Product" in my head :) > Anoter option: VIP ;) > > 2018-02-20 8:32 GMT+01:00 Jennifer Strater : > >> Although there seems to be a lot of disagreement about the name, e

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

I agree with Guillaume: MVP sounds "Minimal Viable Product" in my head :) Anoter option: VIP ;) 2018-02-20 8:32 GMT+01:00 Jennifer Strater : > Although there seems to be a lot of disagreement about the name, everyone > seems to be in favor of the idea. What is the next step, Paul? > > > On 20. Fe

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

Although there seems to be a lot of disagreement about the name, everyone seems to be in favor of the idea. What is the next step, Paul? > On 20. Feb 2018, at 07:56, Peter McNeil wrote: > > You're all missing the obvious "Groovy GR8" :-) > >> On 20/02/18 11:35, Paul King wrote: >> Supreme Than

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

You're all missing the obvious "Groovy GR8" :-) On 20/02/18 11:35, Paul King wrote: Supreme Thanks Award Recognising contributions? :-) On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 7:08 AM, Kostas Saidis > wrote: My own few cents, too: Groovy Star, Groovy Champion, Groovy MVP al

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

Supreme Thanks Award Recognising contributions? :-) On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 7:08 AM, Kostas Saidis wrote: > My own few cents, too: > > Groovy Star, Groovy Champion, Groovy MVP all have their pros and cons. I > would suggest something along the lines of Groovy Exceptional Community > Member (Groo

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

My own few cents, too: Groovy Star, Groovy Champion, Groovy MVP all have their pros and cons. I would suggest something along the lines of Groovy Exceptional Community Member (Groovy ECM) or Groovy Distinguished Community Member (Groovy DCM). New acronym, professional enough, focusing on the o

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

I have never heard "MVP" =  "Minimum Viable Product", so I doubt this would pose a problem. Also do you suggest that people would actually read "Groovy has announced its Minimum Viable Products of 2018" ? STAR has 129 meanings as an acronym, btw, according to https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.c

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

For me, MVP sounds too much like Minimum Viable Product : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:32 PM, MG wrote: > Following the sports analogy, what about > > "Groovy MVPs" > > ? > > Any game can have Most Valuable Players (even if only one is typically

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

Following the sports analogy, what about "Groovy MVPs" ? Any game can have Most Valuable Players (even if only one is typically crowned in the US), and I think "Groovy announced its 2018 MVPs" has a nice ring to it. Cheers, mg On 19.02.2018 12:03, Søren Berg Glasius wrote: I disagree wi

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

Hi Søren, I agree that they are all stars. One can have all stars without having "Groovy Stars" however ;-) Regarding your arguments, I in turn disagree :-) 1. I think that the image of star as a celestial body is not the typical association with the word in this context, especially if

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

I disagree with MG. A star is an object that shines, and in this case shines light on the Groovy language and ecosystem. Hence I think the name is both professional, and since it can be directly linked to the star in the Groovy logo I think it makes perfect sense. In sports you also have star play

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

It's definitely not just for code contributions, but people who contribute more widely / globally / generally to the project and its ecosystem. So people running Groovy conferences are indeed great candidates to become Stars / Champions :-) Guillaume On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 1:38 PM, Eric Kinsella

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

On 18.02.2018 13:38, Eric Kinsella wrote: +1up on Groovy Stars. "Get a life" ;-) But seriously, all the people one-upping "Groovy Stars" - consider whether that name really sends the right professional message with regards to Groovy ? I am convinced it does not. Managers who might decide w

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

+1up on Groovy Stars. Also please consider not just language contributions but those from community organizers like Søren Glasius && Shaun Jurgemeyer! Cheers, Eric Kinsella On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 6:13 AM, Daniel Sun wrote: > Hi Paul, > > “Groovy Champions” make people associate it with

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

Hi Paul, “Groovy Champions” make people associate it with "Java Champions" easily. As for "Groovy Stars", it is interesting but let me associate "Song Stars" and "Kungfu Stars" easily... I wish other people would not associate as I do... Similarly, many years ago some one suggested to

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

I do not remember anyone ever listing some negative side effects - very interested to learn about this, since up to now it was only ever "Groovy already has support for that through @Newify" (which I evidently do not agree with :-) ). Apart from that: Much of the Groovy goodness comes from its

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

On 16.02.2018 01:52, Jochen Theodorou wrote: for the named parameters support the map solution does only not suffice for the static compiler in the end... A pragmatic solution would be to say foo(x:1) can call foo(int) if the parameter is named x and that this call is taken even if there is a

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

On 16.02.2018 01:52, Jochen Theodorou wrote: final variables with no explicit type not being of type Object is the case for type-checked variant and in normal Groovy it does not play any role (not even the modifier does play a real role in the compilation result) The following holds also for

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

Hi Jochen, On 16.02.2018 01:52, Jochen Theodorou wrote: For me inline closures are not a no-brainer, not at all. just because their solution may look simple does not mean it was easy to develop or that it can be used for Groovy. not being in any way used to thinking about how to extend/improv

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

On 15.02.2018 06:04, MG wrote: One other thing from the no-brainers section that Kotlin does better than Groovy: Ctors can be called without the new keyword. (Groovy's offer in this regard is alas severly lacking, hence nobody uses it...) I know this from Scala, how is the usage of this in Kot

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

On 14.02.2018 22:50, MG wrote: [...] but these are no-brainers, e.g. the semantics of inline closures, or that final variables with no explicit type are not of type Object, but of the type they were assigned, or named parameters support which does not try to force-map the problem to a (non type

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

On 14.02.2018 22:38, MG wrote: [...] Would you suggest we also honor Groovy inventor James Strachan, who wrote in 2009 in his Blog "I can honestly say if someone had shown me the Programming in Scala book by by Martin Odersky, Lex Spoon & Bill Venners back in 2003 I'd probably have never create

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

One other thing from the no-brainers section that Kotlin does better than Groovy: Ctors can be called without the new keyword. (Groovy's offer in this regard is alas severly lacking, hence nobody uses it...) On 14.02.2018 22:50, MG wrote: PPS: I do not agree with you assessment of Kotlin: Apart

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

PPS: I do not agree with you assessment of Kotlin: Apart from it being always statically typed (less flexible than Groovy, but sometimes just all one needs, and definitely easier for Java-only-developers to wrap their head around; also helps avoid the annoying "only a scripting language" tag),

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

PS: The process by which Groovy honors shall be bestowed is another point that needs imho to be carefully considered, otherwise e.g. someone with 50+ Facebook friends can easily swing any vote (I have seen this happen before). On 14.02.2018 12:23, Cédric Champeau wrote: Or for something

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

That depends on whether this honor is designed to promote Groovy and say thank you to people who are doing something for Groovy and the Groovy ecosystem right now, or if it is to honor people who have done so in the past, whatever they are doing right now. Would you suggest we also honor Groov

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

> Or for something with a bit more pep "Groovy Vanguard Developer / > Contributor 2018" or "Groovy Crack 2018". > > Contrary to Java Champions, I would suggest tying it to a specific year: > I like the idea of having it associated with a year, but it doesn't have to. Explanation below. > That wa

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

Of course +1000 to the idea :) 2018-02-14 4:39 GMT+01:00 Andres Almiray : > Groovy Star has a nice ring to it, specially if the logo of the program > links to the Groovy logo :-) > > --- > Java Champion; Groovy Enthusiast > JCP EC Associate Seat > http://an

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

Groovy Star has a nice ring to it, specially if the logo of the program links to the Groovy logo :-) --- Java Champion; Groovy Enthusiast JCP EC Associate Seat http://andresalmiray.com http://www.linkedin.com/in/aalmiray -- What goes up, must come down. Ask

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

-1 on "Groovy Stars" / +1 on the overall concept. Stars makes me think of (Super) Mario, and apart from that it is sounds so over the top. I don't think many people outside of the Groovy community know the logo so well, that they realize it has an (irregular) star in the background (I myself a

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

+1 on the name! I think it's cool to differentiate the Groovy award from other awards like Java Rock-stars and Java Champions, Grails Rock-stars, and more! On Tue, 13 Feb 2018 at 14:09 Guillaume Laforge wrote: > It's funny, I think we didn't think about "stars" in our previous > conversations,

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

It's funny, I think we didn't think about "stars" in our previous conversations, and I must say I quite like it, and it makes sense considering our logo :-D On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Jennifer Strater wrote: > +1 for the proposal and +1 for "Groovy Stars" > > On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:54 P

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

+1 for the proposal and +1 for "Groovy Stars" On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:54 PM, Paul King wrote: > I don't mind "Groovy Stars" as a name! > > Of course it begs the question "Star trek" or "Star Wars" - the long > journey > of programming language design vs the language wars! :-) > > > On Tue, Feb

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

I don't mind "Groovy Stars" as a name! Of course it begs the question "Star trek" or "Star Wars" - the long journey of programming language design vs the language wars! :-) On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 9:46 PM, Dierk König wrote: > I’m all for honoring contributions to the language/ecosystem/communi

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

I’m all for honoring contributions to the language/ecosystem/community. Given our logo, „Groovy Star“ comes to mind :-) Cheers Dierk sent from:mobile > Am 13.02.2018 um 12:29 schrieb Paolo Di Tommaso : > > It sound a nice idea also to promote the visibility of the groovy community. > > > p

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

It sound a nice idea also to promote the visibility of the groovy community. p On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Søren Berg Glasius wrote: > I'm definitely +1 > > It is always important to recognize and encourage the ones making a > difference to the community. > > On Tue, 13 Feb 2018 at 11:32

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

I'm definitely +1 It is always important to recognize and encourage the ones making a difference to the community. On Tue, 13 Feb 2018 at 11:32 Schalk Cronjé wrote: > > That's a +1 from me for the concep. > > > On 13/02/2018 10:58, Paul King wrote: > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > A few of us have

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

That's a +1 from me for the concep. On 13/02/2018 10:58, Paul King wrote: Hi everyone, A few of us have had various discussions (in fact over many years) about having a recognition scheme similar to Java Champions, perhaps called "Groovy Champions" or "Apache Groovy Champions" or something e

Groovy Champions proposal feedback

Hi everyone, A few of us have had various discussions (in fact over many years) about having a recognition scheme similar to Java Champions, perhaps called "Groovy Champions" or "Apache Groovy Champions" or something else entirely if we think of a better name. I think the idea has always been to