On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 26.05.2012 07:45, schrieb Joel Rees:
Do you understand the reason you still set up swap, even though your
entire workload working set fits into RAM?
there is no single reason if you have enough RAM
In an ideal
Stop this! (please)
2012/5/28 Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com:
On Sat, May 26, 2012 at 5:20 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 26.05.2012 07:45, schrieb Joel Rees:
Do you understand the reason you still set up swap, even though your
entire workload working set fits into RAM?
On 28.05.2012, Clemens Eisserer wrote:
Stop this! (please)
That is something you can do by yourself, you don't need any others to
do it for you. Just don't read this thread. It's that easy. Filter it
out, filter the people contributing to it, whatever..
--
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Am 26.05.2012 07:45, schrieb Joel Rees:
Do you understand the reason you still set up swap, even though your
entire workload working set fits into RAM?
there is no single reason if you have enough RAM
In an ideal world, RAM would not consume energy.
This is a real world, what energy I
On 26.05.2012, Reindl Harald wrote:
and even if - machines with 1 GB RAM are loughable
these days since i remember that a yum-upgrade was
killed with a OOM om a virtual machine witout GUI
Millions of small notebooks with 1 GB RAM have been sold,
because they are small, able to run many hours
Am 26.05.2012 11:41, schrieb Heinz Diehl:
Millions of small notebooks with 1 GB RAM have been sold,
because they are small, able to run many hours solely on batteri,
and because a lot of people don't have the money to buy something more
expensive. In other words: they are quite common, and
On 26.05.2012, Reindl Harald wrote:
Why do you think it's wrong?
it is wrong
This discussion ends here for me. Your claims and statements totally
lack any evidence, which means that it's a waste of time to read
any further.
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To
wakeup of this discussion or at
least quote somebody other than me!
Original-Nachricht
Betreff: Re: The death of Hibernate?
Datum: Thu, 17 May 2012 21:29:17 +0900
Von: Joel Rees joel.r...@gmail.com
Where do we get these recruits?
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 7:35 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei
see no benefit in hibernate
and swap after 10 years in IT business so please Joel
leave us in peace with you wakeup of this discussion or at
least quote somebody other than me!
Original-Nachricht
Betreff: Re: The death of Hibernate?
Datum: Thu, 17 May 2012 21:29:17 +0900
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 9:36 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 17.05.2012 14:29, schrieb Joel Rees:
you can guess how long it takes dump 16 GB to disk and load
it
Guess,
Or calculate?
calculate it
I'd like to see your calculations, although I got a clue from your
On 19.05.2012, James Wilkinson wrote:
I bet that Asus netbook is based on an Atom processor and an Intel
chipset, and whatever else you might say about Intel (and who doesn’t?),
they still (mostly) remember the twenty-year-old Pentium lesson that if
it’s got their name on it, it ought to be
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 9:29 AM, Heinz Diehl h...@fritha.org wrote:
On 19.05.2012, James Wilkinson wrote:
I bet that Asus netbook is based on an Atom processor and an Intel
chipset, and whatever else you might say about Intel (and who doesn’t?),
they still (mostly) remember the
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 10:34:31AM +0200, Christopher Svanefalk wrote:
Seems to me Apple has been doing this masterfully for years now. How
much better is a $2000 Macbook Pro as opposed to a HP laptop with the
same processor?
Actually, there's a bit of misconception here. Yes, you can find
Am 19.05.2012 13:47, schrieb Dave Ihnat:
Actually, there's a bit of misconception here. Yes, you can find machines
with marginal configurations that may have the same processor as a Macbook
Pro that appear to be very much cheaper.
But they have less or slower memory, less capable/slower
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 2:30 PM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 19.05.2012 13:47, schrieb Dave Ihnat:
Actually, there's a bit of misconception here. Yes, you can find machines
with marginal configurations that may have the same processor as a Macbook
Pro that appear to be
On 05/19/2012 05:48 AM, Christopher Svanefalk wrote:
As for desktops, it should be noted of course that the one-piece iMac
is a very different concept than a standard case-monitor desktop.
But not, by any means, a new one. To me it looks like a modern version
of a typical CP/M machine of the
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 8:41 PM, Joe Zeff j...@zeff.us wrote:
On 05/19/2012 05:48 AM, Christopher Svanefalk wrote:
As for desktops, it should be noted of course that the one-piece iMac
is a very different concept than a standard case-monitor desktop.
But not, by any means, a new one. To me
On 18.05.2012, Reindl Harald wrote:
buying a cheaper machine than 800 € results usually
in buy much more machines in a relative short term
Maybe for you, but not for folks who hardly can afford a low end
machine. Not having a computer is no longer an alternative these days
either.
cheaper
Reindl Harald wrote:
waking up from suspend to disk takes much longer as a cold
start
You've repeated this several times,
so I thought I'd test it on my laptop,
a Thinkpad T60 running Fedora-16/KDE.
I did each test twice.
Hibernate (ie suspend to disk) and shutdown
both took the same time,
Am 18.05.2012 10:36, schrieb Timothy Murphy:
You've repeated this several times,
so I thought I'd test it on my laptop,
a Thinkpad T60 running Fedora-16/KDE.
I did each test twice.
Hibernate (ie suspend to disk) and shutdown
both took the same time, 18-20 seconds.
Waking from
Am 18.05.2012 10:18, schrieb Heinz Diehl:
On 18.05.2012, Reindl Harald wrote:
buying a cheaper machine than 800 € results usually
in buy much more machines in a relative short term
Maybe for you, but not for folks who hardly can afford a low end
machine. Not having a computer is no
10 years ago i lived more than 3 years without a job
and in this time you have not much money
And if you were doing that in most of Western Europe/Canada/etc you would
have been receivign vastly more than someone in many other countries
working 50hours a week.
I would question your maths on
Am 18.05.2012 11:57, schrieb Alan Cox:
I would question your maths on disk costs and electricity pricing too. To
an extent its an open question given there's a human work cost involved
but even a reasonably efficient modern machine running 24 x 7 is using a
fair amount of kWh with associated
Reindl Harald wrote:
but that was never a reason to buy low quality
You are assuming that because your colleague's HP cost €800
it is of higher quality than my daughter's under €300 Asus netbook,
where by higher quality you apparently mean will last longer.
From my - very long but not broad -
Am 18.05.2012 13:25, schrieb Timothy Murphy:
You mention having machines with 16GB RAM.
How exactly is this used?
I just checked my 2 servers;
the one here (I'm in Italy) has 5GB RAM, 4GB of which is free
(Mem: 4829188k total, 847540k used, 3981648k free).
The server in Ireland has
Reindl Harald wrote:
but for only write some mails and web-brwosing i can not see why 10
seconds
more or less are making the difference and as cheaper/slower your
hardware is as longer wake up from suspend takes
I'm not sure exactly what you are saying.
I don't care if my laptop takes 10
Out of curiosity, I thought a few years ago that the future would be
hibernate implemented by kexec... And then no one else mentioned it
anymore.
Does anyone know what happened? Lack of interest or techical issues?
Maybe this would be a good time to revive the interest on it, if possible?
--
Timothy Murphy wrote:
You are assuming that because your colleague's HP cost €800
it is of higher quality than my daughter's under €300 Asus netbook,
where by higher quality you apparently mean will last longer.
From my - very long but not broad - experience
there is little or no
Where do we get these recruits?
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 7:35 AM, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 06.03.2012 22:49, schrieb Rex Dieter:
Geoffrey Leach wrote:
It appears that among some kernel maintainers there's an opinion that
the hibernate (suspend to disk) capability is of
Am 17.05.2012 14:29, schrieb Joel Rees:
you can guess how long it takes dump 16 GB to disk and load
it
Guess,
Or calculate?
calculate it
it takes way too long
it may acceptable on machines with real fast RAID10
but they are booting also much faster and are up in 10-15 seconds
5
On 17.5.2012 15:36, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 17.05.2012 14:29, schrieb Joel Rees:
Do you understand the reason you still set up swap, even though your
entire workload working set fits into RAM?
there is no single reason if you have neough RAM
RAM is better used for disk cache than for
Am 17.05.2012 14:46, schrieb Jari Fredriksson:
On 17.5.2012 15:36, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 17.05.2012 14:29, schrieb Joel Rees:
Do you understand the reason you still set up swap, even though your
entire workload working set fits into RAM?
there is no single reason if you have neough RAM
Reindl Harald wrote:
again: swap may be usefull if you have too few RAM
on modern machines starting with 8-16 GB this is esotheric
I agree. With the advent of x86_64 and dirt cheap RAM swap
files/partitions should be phased out. Hibernate and suspend are no
longer necessary or helpful functions
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 08:24:50AM -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
I agree. With the advent of x86_64 and dirt cheap RAM swap
files/partitions should be phased out. Hibernate and suspend are no
longer necessary or helpful functions either (on machines sold today).
With all due respect, do
Am 17.05.2012 15:30, schrieb Dave Ihnat:
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 08:24:50AM -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
I agree. With the advent of x86_64 and dirt cheap RAM swap
files/partitions should be phased out. Hibernate and suspend are no
longer necessary or helpful functions either (on
On Thu, 2012-05-17 at 08:24 -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
Hibernate and suspend are no longer necessary or helpful functions
either (on machines sold today).
I suspend on my Laptop, all the time. Quite apart from the speed issue,
it's handy to be able to halt and resume, everything.
--
On 05/17/2012 11:15 PM, Tim wrote:
On Thu, 2012-05-17 at 08:24 -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
Hibernate and suspend are no longer necessary or helpful functions
either (on machines sold today).
I suspend on my Laptop, all the time. Quite apart from the speed issue,
it's handy to be able to
Once upon a time, Steve Underwood ste...@coppice.org said:
On 05/17/2012 11:15 PM, Tim wrote:
On Thu, 2012-05-17 at 08:24 -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
Hibernate and suspend are no longer necessary or helpful functions
either (on machines sold today).
I suspend on my Laptop, all the time.
Am 17.05.2012 17:52, schrieb Steve Underwood:
On 05/17/2012 11:15 PM, Tim wrote:
On Thu, 2012-05-17 at 08:24 -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
Hibernate and suspend are no longer necessary or helpful functions
either (on machines sold today).
I suspend on my Laptop, all the time. Quite
Once upon a time, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net said:
sure?
Yes.
i used a laptop from 2003 until 2011 as my main working machine
all the day and never came to the idea write a 6 GB to a slow
mobile-disk and load it the next time instead simply shutdown/boot
Okay, so you don't want to
On 05/17/2012 11:08 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 17.05.2012 17:52, schrieb Steve Underwood:
On 05/17/2012 11:15 PM, Tim wrote:
On Thu, 2012-05-17 at 08:24 -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
Hibernate and suspend are no longer necessary or helpful functions
either (on machines sold today).
Once upon a time, Steven Stern subscribed-li...@sterndata.com said:
Wouldn't it be A Wonderful Thing if a Fedora laptop (or even a Windows
laptop) could suspend and restart as effortlessly as a MacBook? When I
close the lid on my MacBook, I am completely confident it will work when
I pop it
Am 17.05.2012 18:33, schrieb Chris Adams:
Once upon a time, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net said:
sure?
Yes.
i used a laptop from 2003 until 2011 as my main working machine
all the day and never came to the idea write a 6 GB to a slow
mobile-disk and load it the next time instead
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 06:08:34PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 17.05.2012 17:52, schrieb Steve Underwood:
On 05/17/2012 11:15 PM, Tim wrote:
On Thu, 2012-05-17 at 08:24 -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
Hibernate and suspend are no longer necessary or helpful functions
either (on
On Thu, 2012-05-17 at 23:52 +0800, Steve Underwood wrote:
Quite right. Only someone who never uses a laptop could think hibernate
and suspend are no longer needed.
I use hibernate daily on my desktop too. For various reasons, recovering
a complete session, for me, can take quite a while. The
Michael Cronenworth wrote:
again: swap may be usefull if you have too few RAM
on modern machines starting with 8-16 GB this is esotheric
I agree. With the advent of x86_64 and dirt cheap RAM swap
files/partitions should be phased out. Hibernate and suspend are no
longer necessary or
Michael Cronenworth wrote:
You are talking nonsense if by modern you mean recent.
My daughter just bought an Asus laptop (1015BX) with 1GB RAM installed,
and a maximum 2GB RAM installable.
here is the question why buying crap these days?
my co-worker bought last year a notebook with 4 GB
On Thu, 17 May 2012 22:09:36 +0200
Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
Michael Cronenworth wrote:
You are talking nonsense if by modern you mean recent.
My daughter just bought an Asus laptop (1015BX) with 1GB RAM installed,
and a maximum 2GB RAM installable.
here is the
Am 17.05.2012 22:19, schrieb Alan Cox:
On Thu, 17 May 2012 22:09:36 +0200
Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
My daughter just bought an Asus laptop (1015BX) with 1GB RAM installed,
and a maximum 2GB RAM installable.
here is the question why buying crap these days?
Its a pretty
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 10:09:36PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
i live in the world where someone starts his work in the
morining and powers on his computer once each day and
have all other machines running 365/7/24
waking up from suspend to disk takes much longer as a cold start
Can you
Am 17.05.2012 22:23, schrieb Darryl L. Pierce:
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 10:09:36PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
i live in the world where someone starts his work in the
morining and powers on his computer once each day and
have all other machines running 365/7/24
waking up from suspend to
On 05/17/2012 01:09 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
i live in the world where someone starts his work in the
morining and powers on his computer once each day and
have all other machines running 365/7/24
Therefor, hibernate is wrong *for you.* Not everybody lives in your
world; some people find
Am 17.05.2012 22:29, schrieb Joe Zeff:
On 05/17/2012 01:09 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
i live in the world where someone starts his work in the
morining and powers on his computer once each day and
have all other machines running 365/7/24
Therefor, hibernate is wrong *for you.* Not
someone may find it nice to have his previous desktop
state, but it is NOT faster than a cold boot
It's faster than a cold boot to the previous desktop state, at least
with Gnome 3's crap management of sessions.
With Xfce probably it's faster to boot
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On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 10:27:55PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
i live in the world where someone starts his work in the
morining and powers on his computer once each day and
have all other machines running 365/7/24
waking up from suspend to disk takes much longer as a cold start
Can
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 10:33:00PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
i said only suspned-to-disk is unuseable if you have
a modern machine with = 16 GB RAM or a notebook with
8 RAM and slow notebook-disks
someone may find it nice to have his previous desktop
state, but it is NOT faster than a
Am 17.05.2012 22:37, schrieb Darryl L. Pierce:
currently 25 seconds including a lot of services
not used on a typical end-user machine
Not so quickly for me. Granted my swap and home partitions are
encrypted, but the password entry is hard a second or two during the
boot process.
you did
On 05/17/2012 01:33 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
WHERE did i say that my way is the only right?
Your attitude, your way of expressing yourself and the way you
contemptuously dismiss anybody who doesn't agree with you all say it.
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To unsubscribe
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 10:44:42PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 17.05.2012 22:37, schrieb Darryl L. Pierce:
currently 25 seconds including a lot of services
not used on a typical end-user machine
Not so quickly for me. Granted my swap and home partitions are
encrypted, but the
Am 17.05.2012 22:54, schrieb Darryl L. Pierce:
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 10:44:42PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
you did read the a lot of services?
disable them and you are around 8-10 seconds on F16
Then that's not a usable system is it? I'm not talking about the base
boot speed but the
On 05/17/2012 01:54 PM, Darryl L. Pierce wrote:
Then that's not a usable system is it? I'm not talking about the base
boot speed but the boot speed with everything running. I have none of the
ones you list below running on my system exception httpd and my boot
time is 10s of seconds, as I said
Am 17.05.2012 23:08, schrieb Joe Zeff:
If you assume he's talking about his own specific needs, not the
general case, what he writes makes much more sense.
uhm it is clear and logical for me that i speak about
my needs and expierience in the last 10 years
for who else could i?
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 11:01:34PM +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
you did read the a lot of services?
disable them and you are around 8-10 seconds on F16
Then that's not a usable system is it? I'm not talking about the base
boot speed but the boot speed with everything running. I have none
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 02:08:43PM -0700, Joe Zeff wrote:
On 05/17/2012 01:54 PM, Darryl L. Pierce wrote:
Then that's not a usable system is it? I'm not talking about the base
boot speed but the boot speed with everything running. I have none of the
ones you list below running on my system
On Thu, May 17, 2012 at 3:24 PM, Michael Cronenworth m...@cchtml.com wrote:
Reindl Harald wrote:
again: swap may be usefull if you have too few RAM
on modern machines starting with 8-16 GB this is esotheric
I agree. With the advent of x86_64 and dirt cheap RAM swap
files/partitions should be
Reindl Harald wrote:
Michael Cronenworth wrote:
Actually I said what you are quoting.
You are talking nonsense if by modern you mean recent.
My daughter just bought an Asus laptop (1015BX) with 1GB RAM installed,
and a maximum 2GB RAM installable.
here is the question why buying crap
Am 17.05.2012 23:22, schrieb Timothy Murphy:
I don't consider Fedora suitable for a server.
your opinion
and I suspect that of most people who have to make this choice.
if you need a recent software stack and have to
compile all things at your won while libraries
are outdated you are
On 17May2012 23:52, Steve Underwood ste...@coppice.org wrote:
| On 05/17/2012 11:15 PM, Tim wrote:
| On Thu, 2012-05-17 at 08:24 -0500, Michael Cronenworth wrote:
| Hibernate and suspend are no longer necessary or helpful functions
| either (on machines sold today).
| I suspend on my Laptop,
On 17May2012 11:33, Chris Adams cmad...@hiwaay.net wrote:
| Windows 7 also has a nice thing that Linux does not: a hybrid mode
| between suspend and hibernate. With that, when you suspend, it goes
| through the hiberate steps (writing what it needs to disk), but then
| puts the system into
On 05/17/2012 02:13 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 17.05.2012 23:08, schrieb Joe Zeff:
If you assume he's talking about his own specific needs, not the
general case, what he writes makes much more sense.
uhm it is clear and logical for me that i speak about
my needs and expierience in the last
On 17May2012 22:33, Reindl Harald h.rei...@thelounge.net wrote:
| i said only suspned-to-disk is unuseable if you have
| a modern machine with = 16 GB RAM or a notebook with
| 8 RAM and slow notebook-disks
If all this happens _after_ I close the laptop lid I often don't care.
Admittedly, I'm
Thats horrible news - Microsoft will switch to hibernation as the
default way of booting with Windows8 while on linux its so broken that
it will be disabled by default. If only the Ubuntu guys would
contribute a little bit more, instead of coding their own
replacements for various things.
I
It appears that among some kernel maintainers there's an opinion that
the hibernate (suspend to disk) capability is of insufficient interest
to users to justify the difficulty of maintenance. See
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=781749
Will anyone for whom hibernate is important
Geoffrey Leach wrote:
It appears that among some kernel maintainers there's an opinion that
the hibernate (suspend to disk) capability is of insufficient interest
to users to justify the difficulty of maintenance.
It's not an issue about users' interest at all. Obviously its a useful
Am 06.03.2012 22:49, schrieb Rex Dieter:
Geoffrey Leach wrote:
It appears that among some kernel maintainers there's an opinion that
the hibernate (suspend to disk) capability is of insufficient interest
to users to justify the difficulty of maintenance.
It's not an issue about users'
On 03/07/2012 04:05 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 06.03.2012 22:49, schrieb Rex Dieter:
Geoffrey Leach wrote:
It appears that among some kernel maintainers there's an opinion that
the hibernate (suspend to disk) capability is of insufficient interest
to users to justify the difficulty of
On 06 Mar 2012 at 17:35:22, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 06.03.2012 22:49, schrieb Rex Dieter:
Geoffrey Leach wrote:
It appears that among some kernel maintainers there's an opinion that
the hibernate (suspend to disk) capability is of insufficient interest
to users to justify the
On Tuesday, 6. March 2012. 17.42.41 Anthony R Fletcher wrote:
If you do a fresh boot you lose your current stateand that is
valuable. So hibernate (for long periods of down time, for example for a
long flight) is very useful.
What happened to the save session stuff that should be provided
On Wed, Mar 7, 2012 at 12:07 AM, Marko Vojinovic vvma...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tuesday, 6. March 2012. 17.42.41 Anthony R Fletcher wrote:
If you do a fresh boot you lose your current stateand that is
valuable. So hibernate (for long periods of down time, for example for a
long flight) is
On 03/06/2012 03:07 PM, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
On Tuesday, 6. March 2012. 17.42.41 Anthony R Fletcher wrote:
If you do a fresh boot you lose your current stateand that is
valuable. So hibernate (for long periods of down time, for example for a
long flight) is very useful.
What happened to
On 06 Mar 2012 at 18:07:24, Marko Vojinovic wrote:
On Tuesday, 6. March 2012. 17.42.41 Anthony R Fletcher wrote:
If you do a fresh boot you lose your current stateand that is
valuable. So hibernate (for long periods of down time, for example for a
long flight) is very useful.
What
On Tue, Mar 6, 2012 at 10:13 PM, Geoffrey Leach ge...@hughes.net wrote:
It appears that among some kernel maintainers there's an opinion that
the hibernate (suspend to disk) capability is of insufficient interest
to users to justify the difficulty of maintenance.
Personally, hibernation is
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