Hi Michael,
> From: Michael S. Tsirkin
> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 11:12 AM
> I was attempting to have each of you see other's point of view.
> It seems clear I was right, at least one way communication was not getting
> through. Let me try to help.
>
>
> First, clearly Zhu Lingshan
On Thu, Sep 21, 2023 at 03:43:12AM +, Parav Pandit wrote:
>
>
> > From: Michael S. Tsirkin
> > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 1:34 AM
> >
> > On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 05:21:52PM +, Parav Pandit wrote:
> > > > OK so with this summary in mind, can you find any advantages to
> > > >
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 07:27:05PM +0800, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
> What if a malicious SW dump guest memory through admin vq LM facility?
What if malicious SW misconfigures vq through the SUSPEND bit facility?
--
MST
-
To
> From: Jason Wang
> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 9:50 AM
> Parav, I think I've clarified several times:
>
> migration using the admin command is probably fine in some use cases.
>
This is definitely, was not clear to me.
I am 100% clear now.
> What's not fine, is:
>
> Mandate the
On Tue, Sep 19, 2023 at 7:43 PM Jiqian Chen wrote:
>
> When guest vm does S3, Qemu will reset and clear some things of virtio
> devices, but guest can't aware that, so that may cause some problems.
> For excample, Qemu calls virtio_reset->virtio_gpu_gl_reset when guest
> resume, that function
> From: Jason Wang
> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 8:56 AM
> My understanding is it might be better that each side do a summary of the both
> proposals.
I will summarize it soon in reply to [1].
Thanks.
[1]
On Thu, Sep 21, 2023 at 12:11 PM Parav Pandit wrote:
>
>
>
> > From: Jason Wang
> > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 9:32 AM
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 21, 2023 at 11:51 AM Parav Pandit wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > From: Jason Wang
> > > > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 8:45 AM The main
> From: Jason Wang
> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 9:39 AM
>
> On Thu, Sep 21, 2023 at 12:01 PM Parav Pandit wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: Jason Wang
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 8:48 AM
> >
> > > As replied in another thread, the issues for BAR are:
> > >
> > > 1) Not sure
> From: Jason Wang
> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 9:32 AM
>
> On Thu, Sep 21, 2023 at 11:51 AM Parav Pandit wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > From: Jason Wang
> > > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 8:45 AM The main issue I see so
> > > far is that you want to couple migration with admin
On Thu, Sep 21, 2023 at 12:01 PM Parav Pandit wrote:
>
>
>
> > From: Jason Wang
> > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 8:48 AM
>
> > As replied in another thread, the issues for BAR are:
> >
> > 1) Not sure it can have an efficient interface, it would be something like
> > VIRTIO_PCI_CAP_PCI_CFG
> From: Jason Wang
> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 8:48 AM
> I'm fine. But TDISP is something that needs to be considered. The earlier we
> realize the possible issue the better.
[1] has considered this in the design.
[1]
On Thu, Sep 21, 2023 at 11:51 AM Parav Pandit wrote:
>
>
>
> > From: Jason Wang
> > Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 8:45 AM
> > The main issue I see so far is that
> > you want to couple migration with admin commands but I don't see much
> > advantages to doing this.
> >
> The way I read
> From: Jason Wang
> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 8:48 AM
> As replied in another thread, the issues for BAR are:
>
> 1) Not sure it can have an efficient interface, it would be something like
> VIRTIO_PCI_CAP_PCI_CFG which is very slow compared to single register
> accessing
> 2)
> From: Jason Wang
> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 8:45 AM
> The main issue I see so far is that
> you want to couple migration with admin commands but I don't see much
> advantages to doing this.
>
The way I read above comment is, to draw a parallel line: descriptor posting in
virtio
> From: Michael S. Tsirkin
> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2023 1:34 AM
>
> On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 05:21:52PM +, Parav Pandit wrote:
> > > OK so with this summary in mind, can you find any advantages to
> > > inband+mediation that are real or do you just see disadvantages? And
> > > it's
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 8:41 PM Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
>
> On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 08:05:49AM -0400, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 07:22:32PM +0800, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > On 9/20/2023 6:36 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 8:05 PM Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
>
> On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 07:22:32PM +0800, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 9/20/2023 6:36 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > > On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 02:06:13PM +0800, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On 9/19/2023 2:49 AM,
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 6:36 PM Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
>
> On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 02:06:13PM +0800, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 9/19/2023 2:49 AM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > > On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 06:41:55PM +, Parav Pandit wrote:
> > > > > Please refer to the code for
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 8:40 PM Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
>
> On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 08:16:13PM +0800, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 9/20/2023 8:05 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > > On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 07:22:32PM +0800, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On 9/20/2023 6:36 PM,
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 05:21:52PM +, Parav Pandit wrote:
> > OK so with this summary in mind, can you find any advantages to
> > inband+mediation that are real or do you just see disadvantages? And
> > it's a tricky question because I can see some advantages ;)
>
> inband + mediation may be
> From: Michael S. Tsirkin
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 7:46 PM
>
> > Details of his position in my view:
> >
> > 1. Device migration must be done through VF itself by suspending specific
> > vqs
> and the VF device both.
> > 2. When device migration is done using #1, it must be done
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 01:41:00PM +, Parav Pandit wrote:
>
> > From: Michael S. Tsirkin
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 6:12 PM
>
> > And Parav same goes for you - can you summarize Zhu Lingshan's position?
>
> Below is my summary about Zhu Lingshan's position:
>
> One line
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 01:41:00PM +, Parav Pandit wrote:
> 12. Some how register access on single physical card for the PFs and VFs
> gives better QoS guarantee than virtqueue as registers can scale infinitely
> no matter how many VFs or for multiple VQs because it is per VF.
>
This makes
> From: Michael S. Tsirkin
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 6:12 PM
> And Parav same goes for you - can you summarize Zhu Lingshan's position?
Below is my summary about Zhu Lingshan's position:
One line summary of his position in my view:
0. Use inband device migration only, use
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 08:05:49AM -0400, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 07:22:32PM +0800, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 9/20/2023 6:36 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > > On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 02:06:13PM +0800, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On 9/19/2023 2:49
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 08:16:13PM +0800, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
>
>
> On 9/20/2023 8:05 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 07:22:32PM +0800, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
> > >
> > > On 9/20/2023 6:36 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > > > On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 02:06:13PM +0800,
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 08:05:24PM +0800, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
>
>
> On 9/20/2023 7:52 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 07:28:39PM +0800, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
> > >
> > > On 9/20/2023 6:55 PM, Parav Pandit wrote:
> > > > > From: Michael S. Tsirkin
> > > > > Sent:
On 9/20/2023 8:05 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 07:22:32PM +0800, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
On 9/20/2023 6:36 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 02:06:13PM +0800, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
On 9/19/2023 2:49 AM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
On Mon, Sep 18,
> From: Michael S. Tsirkin
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 5:36 PM
>
> OK so we are ignoring TDISP applications for now? Everyone agrees on that?
We are actively considering TDISP applications to support in (unknown) future
in a way that new spec additions for new features we do, does
On 9/20/2023 8:05 PM, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
On 9/20/2023 7:52 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 07:28:39PM +0800, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
On 9/20/2023 6:55 PM, Parav Pandit wrote:
From: Michael S. Tsirkin
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 4:06 PM
I freely admit the
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 07:22:32PM +0800, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
>
>
> On 9/20/2023 6:36 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 02:06:13PM +0800, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
> > >
> > > On 9/19/2023 2:49 AM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > > > On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 06:41:55PM +,
On 9/20/2023 7:52 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 07:28:39PM +0800, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
On 9/20/2023 6:55 PM, Parav Pandit wrote:
From: Michael S. Tsirkin
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 4:06 PM
I freely admit the finer points of this extended flamewar have been
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 07:28:39PM +0800, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
>
>
> On 9/20/2023 6:55 PM, Parav Pandit wrote:
> > > From: Michael S. Tsirkin
> > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 4:06 PM
> > > I freely admit the finer points of this extended flamewar have been lost
> > > on me,
> > > and
On 9/20/2023 6:55 PM, Parav Pandit wrote:
From: Michael S. Tsirkin
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 4:06 PM
I freely admit the finer points of this extended flamewar have been lost on me,
and I wager I'm not the only one. I thought you wanted to migrate the device
just by accessing the
On 9/20/2023 7:15 PM, Parav Pandit wrote:
Random words like malicious SW to describe an attack do not make sense.
this is not random wording, "malicious" used a lot in the papers,
you can search in google scholar
Refer the patches and series and usage model to describe the sw attack
if
On 9/20/2023 6:36 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 02:06:13PM +0800, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
On 9/19/2023 2:49 AM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 06:41:55PM +, Parav Pandit wrote:
Please refer to the code for setting FEATURES_OK.
It wont work when
Random words like malicious SW to describe an attack do not make sense.
Refer the patches and series and usage model to describe the sw attack if any.
I disagree and I will not repeat all the points anymore.
If you have comments in [1], please reply in [1].
Series [1] clearly describes the usage
On 9/20/2023 5:52 PM, Parav Pandit wrote:
Hi Lingshan,
Last two email replies in non-next format are getting hard to follow.
Can you please revert back to have text-based emails?
When one wants to use PF for the live migration in trusted hypervisor,
PF is in the trust zone.
even without
> From: Michael S. Tsirkin
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 4:06 PM
>
> I freely admit the finer points of this extended flamewar have been lost on
> me,
> and I wager I'm not the only one. I thought you wanted to migrate the device
> just by accessing the device itself (e.g. the VF)
On Wed, Sep 20, 2023 at 02:06:13PM +0800, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
>
>
> On 9/19/2023 2:49 AM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 06:41:55PM +, Parav Pandit wrote:
> > > > Please refer to the code for setting FEATURES_OK.
> > > It wont work when one needs to suspend the
Hi Lingshan,
Last two email replies in non-next format are getting hard to follow.
Can you please revert back to have text-based emails?
When one wants to use PF for the live migration in trusted hypervisor, PF is in
the trust zone.
In future when hypervisor is not trusted, the task of LM will
Hi,
> From: virtio-dev@lists.oasis-open.org On
> Behalf Of jeshwank
> Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2023 3:13 PM
>
> The virtio-tee device allows guest OS to access the TEE present in host
> system,
> to perform secure operations.
>
> This patch is to reserve a device ID 46 for virtio-tee
On 9/20/2023 4:34 PM, Parav Pandit wrote:
> There can be malicious SW on the host, and the host may be hacked
and compromised.
> For example:
> 1) SUSPEND the a running guest by admin vq
> 2) dumping guest memory through admin vq dirty page tracking.
No. hypervisor is trusted entity who is
> There can be malicious SW on the host, and the host may be hacked and
> compromised.
> For example:
> 1) SUSPEND the a running guest by admin vq
> 2) dumping guest memory through admin vq dirty page tracking.
No. hypervisor is trusted entity who is hosting the VM.
The device migration is
On 2023/9/20 15:56, Parav Pandit wrote:
> Hi Jiquian,
>
>> From: Chen, Jiqian
>> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 1:24 PM
>>
>> Hi Lingshan,
>> Please reply to your own email thread, below are not related to my patches.
>> Thanks a lot.
>
> They are related to your patch.
> Both the
Hi Jiquian,
> From: Chen, Jiqian
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 1:24 PM
>
> Hi Lingshan,
> Please reply to your own email thread, below are not related to my patches.
> Thanks a lot.
They are related to your patch.
Both the patches have overlapping functionalities.
You probably missed
On 9/20/2023 3:51 PM, Parav Pandit wrote:
From: Zhu, Lingshan
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 1:17 PM
This is not live or device migration. This is restoring the device context
initiated by the driver owning the device.
restore the device context should be done by the hypervisor before
Hi Lingshan,
Please reply to your own email thread, below are not related to my patches.
Thanks a lot.
On 2023/9/20 15:47, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
>
>
> On 9/20/2023 3:35 PM, Parav Pandit wrote:
>>> From: Zhu, Lingshan
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 1:00 PM
>>>
>>> On 9/20/2023 3:24 PM,
> From: Zhu, Lingshan
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 1:17 PM
> > This is not live or device migration. This is restoring the device context
> initiated by the driver owning the device.
> restore the device context should be done by the hypervisor before setting
> DRIVER_OK and waking up
> From: Zhu, Lingshan
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 1:16 PM
[..]
> > In my view, setting the DRIVER_OK is the signal regardless of hypervisor or
> physical device.
> > Hence the re-read is must.
> Yes, as I said below, should verify by re-read.
> >
Thanks.
On 9/20/2023 3:35 PM, Parav Pandit wrote:
From: Zhu, Lingshan
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 1:00 PM
On 9/20/2023 3:24 PM, Chen, Jiqian wrote:
Hi Lingshan,
It seems you reply to the wrong email thread. They are not related to my
patch.
These reply to Parva's comments.
@Parva, if you
On 9/20/2023 3:32 PM, Parav Pandit wrote:
From: Zhu, Lingshan
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 12:58 PM
On 9/20/2023 3:10 PM, Parav Pandit wrote:
From: Zhu, Lingshan
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 12:37 PM
The problem to overcome in [1] is, resume operation needs to be
On 9/20/2023 3:17 PM, Chen, Jiqian wrote:
Hi Lingshan,
On 2023/9/20 14:58, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
On 9/20/2023 2:33 PM, Chen, Jiqian wrote:
Hi Lingshan,
On 2023/9/20 13:59, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
On 9/19/2023 8:31 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
On Tue, Sep 19, 2023 at 07:42:42PM +0800,
> From: Zhu, Lingshan
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 1:00 PM
>
> On 9/20/2023 3:24 PM, Chen, Jiqian wrote:
> > Hi Lingshan,
> > It seems you reply to the wrong email thread. They are not related to my
> patch.
> These reply to Parva's comments.
> @Parva, if you want to discuss more about
> From: Zhu, Lingshan
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 12:58 PM
>
> On 9/20/2023 3:10 PM, Parav Pandit wrote:
> >> From: Zhu, Lingshan
> >> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 12:37 PM
> >>> The problem to overcome in [1] is, resume operation needs to be
> >>> synchronous
> >> as it
On 9/20/2023 3:24 PM, Chen, Jiqian wrote:
Hi Lingshan,
It seems you reply to the wrong email thread. They are not related to my patch.
These reply to Parva's comments.
@Parva, if you want to discuss more about live migration, please reply
in my thread, lets don't flood here.
On 2023/9/20
On 9/20/2023 3:10 PM, Parav Pandit wrote:
From: Zhu, Lingshan
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 12:37 PM
The problem to overcome in [1] is, resume operation needs to be synchronous
as it involves large part of context to resume back, and hence just
asynchronously setting DRIVER_OK is not
Hi Lingshan,
It seems you reply to the wrong email thread. They are not related to my patch.
On 2023/9/20 15:06, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
>
>
> On 9/20/2023 2:58 PM, Parav Pandit wrote:
>>> From: Chen, Jiqian
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 12:03 PM
>>> If driver write 0 to reset device,
Hi Lingshan,
On 2023/9/20 14:58, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
>
>
> On 9/20/2023 2:33 PM, Chen, Jiqian wrote:
>> Hi Lingshan,
>>
>> On 2023/9/20 13:59, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
>>>
>>> On 9/19/2023 8:31 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
On Tue, Sep 19, 2023 at 07:42:42PM +0800, Jiqian Chen wrote:
>
> From: Zhu, Lingshan
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 12:37 PM
> > The problem to overcome in [1] is, resume operation needs to be synchronous
> as it involves large part of context to resume back, and hence just
> asynchronously setting DRIVER_OK is not enough.
> > The sw must verify
On 9/20/2023 2:58 PM, Parav Pandit wrote:
From: Chen, Jiqian
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 12:03 PM
If driver write 0 to reset device, can the SUSPEND bit be cleared?
It must as reset operation, resets everything else and so the suspend too.
On 9/20/2023 2:33 PM, Chen, Jiqian wrote:
Hi Lingshan,
On 2023/9/20 13:59, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
On 9/19/2023 8:31 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
On Tue, Sep 19, 2023 at 07:42:42PM +0800, Jiqian Chen wrote:
When guest vm does S3, Qemu will reset and clear some things of virtio
devices, but
> From: Chen, Jiqian
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 12:03 PM
> If driver write 0 to reset device, can the SUSPEND bit be cleared?
It must as reset operation, resets everything else and so the suspend too.
> (pci_pm_resume->virtio_pci_restore->virtio_device_restore-
>
Hi Lingshan,
On 2023/9/20 13:59, Zhu, Lingshan wrote:
>
>
> On 9/19/2023 8:31 PM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
>> On Tue, Sep 19, 2023 at 07:42:42PM +0800, Jiqian Chen wrote:
>>> When guest vm does S3, Qemu will reset and clear some things of virtio
>>> devices, but guest can't aware that, so that
On 9/20/2023 2:08 PM, Parav Pandit wrote:
From: Zhu, Lingshan
Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 11:36 AM
On 9/19/2023 2:49 AM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 06:41:55PM +, Parav Pandit wrote:
Please refer to the code for setting FEATURES_OK.
It wont work when one
> From: Zhu, Lingshan
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2023 11:36 AM
>
> On 9/19/2023 2:49 AM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
> > On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 06:41:55PM +, Parav Pandit wrote:
> >>> Please refer to the code for setting FEATURES_OK.
> >> It wont work when one needs to suspend the
On 9/19/2023 2:49 AM, Michael S. Tsirkin wrote:
On Mon, Sep 18, 2023 at 06:41:55PM +, Parav Pandit wrote:
Please refer to the code for setting FEATURES_OK.
It wont work when one needs to suspend the device.
There is no point of doing such work over registers as fundamental framework is
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