[Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: > I do not think that any of the arguments against Rossi have merit, >> especially not the ones that attempt to disprove the 18-hour flowing water >> test. >> > > What test? What exactly was done, what data was generated? > The data provided can be found here: http:/

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

Oh! So the 18 hour test did not involve phase change, no steam! This is surely amusing since one can hardly falsify that so easily with people that are used to the usual tiny LENR effects. HAHA! This is certaily AMAZING! So, if this is a scam, well, it is a HUGE ONE. Now, Rossi really did convinc

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

>From Jed: >> What test? What exactly was done, what data was generated? > > The data provided can be found here: > http://lenr-canr.org/News.htm Jed, I realize it is probably redundant of me to express the following but could you point readers to the specific article(s) you believe make your poi

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote: http://lenr-canr.org/News.htm has a lot of entries. It might help to be more specific as to which installment is most relevant to the point you are making. Is it the 18-hour demonstration? Yup. Let me put a link to it: http://lenr-canr.org/News.htm#Rossi1

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

It does strike me as just a tad obsessive to meticulously focus on Rossi's Chiwawa and Shetland Pony demonstrations, which were nothing more than trade shows - and then treat them as if they were valid scientific experiments. No wonder skeptics have found fault with them. Certainly, we would all l

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

> > > > The data provided can be found here: > > http://lenr-canr.org/News.htm > > This data is similar to what you find on a boiler test form, filled in by > an > inspector. Dear Jed! Following your link I read: A source close to the test gave Jed Rothwell the following figures. How would

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

Angela Kemmler wrote: > A source close to the test gave Jed Rothwell the following figures. > > How would you call that? Don’t be upset, but I would call that: „an > unpublished report of data of an anonymous source on a private webpage“. > Don’t you agree? Call it anything you like. The data

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

I wrote: > Why are Rossi and Levi hiding the notebook-files? > > > The make and model of the flowmeter. I asked them several times and they > ignored me. > I thought that said "WHAT are Rossi and Levi hiding . . ." The answer is: they are hiding the type of flowmeter. As to WHY they are "hiding

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

At 01:47 PM 8/3/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote: The data provided can be found here: http://lenr-canr.org/News.htm Who wrote that? Whose testimony is it? This data is similar to what you find on a boiler test form, filled in by an inspector. The inspector signs the

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: > The data provided can be found here: >> >> http://lenr-canr.org/News.htm >> > > Who wrote that? Whose testimony is it? I wrote it! Who do you think? I talked to the people there and I wrote it. If you don't like my version read Levi

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

At 02:10 PM 8/3/2011, OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote: http://lenr-canr.org/News.htm has a lot of entries. It might help to be more specific as to which installment is most relevant to the point you are making. Is it the 18-hour demonstration? In context, it would be. Much of that is int

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

I wrote: > Oh please. Levi's by-line is in the NyTekNik article. Take it or leave it. > Cut the legalese. > I mean to say it is not his by-line; it is by Lewan, but it is ridiculous to doubt it. Levi would have objected if he had been misquoted. This legalistic speculation that the data in NyTe

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: Boiler test reports are a set of variables found by long experience to > indicate the operating health of a boiler. There is no way to compare this > report with a boiler test. Except that the data recorded in a boiler test is EXACTLY what you see here, for crying out

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

Let me summarize: If your best argument against this data is the assertion that Lewan and I are incapable of transcribing numbers correctly, or that Levi and the others did not bother to check the published report in NyTekNik to be sure the numbers are right, you have lost this debate. Please sto

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

Thanks, Abd, for being so forthright with Jed about his inability to integrate all the bad news about the Rossi debacle -- I'm interested to see how the remaining publicly committed believers are attempting to tough it out together, defiantly clinging to every tattered shred of argument -- being si

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

>From Rich, > -- being sincerely wrong is a really profound learning process. Indeed it is. I don't know if Rossi is sincerely wrong about his eCats or not. I don't know if "believers" of Rossi's claims are also sincerely wrong about their assessments of the claims either. But the same thing can

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

At 06:30 PM 8/3/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote: Let me summarize: I will, too. If your best argument "Your" is unspecified. Whose best argument? against this data is the assertion that Lewan and I are incapable of transcribing numbers correctly, That's certainly not my argument. Period. o

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

At 06:24 PM 8/3/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax <a...@lomaxdesign.com> wrote: Boiler test reports are a set of variables found by long experience to indicate the operating health of a boiler. There is no way to compare this report with a boiler test.

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

At 06:21 PM 8/3/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote: This is a science forum, not a courtroom. Yes. Frankly, it is damned insulting to suggest that I would lie about these numbers, or that Lewan and are incapable of transcribing tape recorded conversations (what he did), copying numbers out of e-mail

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

I wrote: > Except that the data recorded in a boiler test is EXACTLY what you see > here, for crying out loud! > To be more specific, I mean that they record only one value for temperature and one for the flow, even though these values probably fluctuated measurably over the course of the test.

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: No boiler is designed to create very wet steam as a possibility. Now, the 18-hour test doesn't involve steam. That was the point. But no boiler will be tested with water at a liter per second! That is incorrect. A large boiler will be tested at 1 L per second or mo

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

Well, Jed, maybe you're right at the cusp of a complete switch of your gestalt of understandings re the Rossi phenomenon -- a little more likely when waking up in the morning, you notice your entire system of interpretations has irrevocably reversed, like a 3D shift in the way a wire cube seems to

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

At 01:48 AM 8/4/2011, Rich Murray wrote: I'm paying very little attention to any of the cold fusion stuff now, assessing that nothing yet is independently reproducible to refute the null hypothesis of "no anomalies"... There is a large body of data showing independent reproducibility for cold

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

At 01:48 AM 8/4/2011, Rich Murray wrote: Thanks, Abd, for being so forthright My sense is that most cold fusion researchers have become quite skeptical about Rossi. A few are "supportive," but mostly this boils down to them thinking that Rossi's claim confirms their own understanding of Ni-H

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 2:15 AM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: > At 01:48 AM 8/4/2011, Rich Murray wrote: >> >> Thanks, Abd, for being so forthright > > My sense is that most cold fusion researchers have become quite skeptical > about Rossi. You have surveyed them? Could you list those who have had

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: > By the way, the 18-hour test, on its own, certainly seems convincing, but > the problem is that we can't trust it. It's seems to me that most of the people talking about Rossi-Focardi would like to have a proof given personally to them

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: > My sense is that most cold fusion researchers have become quite skeptical > about Rossi. As Terry said, you have not conducted a public opinion poll so you have no basis for having this sense. At ICCF-16 and later I spoke with several people who attended the first

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

> Well, Jed, maybe you're right at the cusp of a complete > switch of your gestalt of understandings re the Rossi > phenomenon -- a little more likely when waking up in the > morning, you notice your entire system of interpretations > has irrevocably reversed, like a 3D shift in the way a > wire cu

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

Just to clarify: I said: > ...If Mr. Murray's propensity to exploit pop psychology persists > I think it may warrant a temporary time out from the Vort sand box. What I meant to say is that if Mr. Murray's propensity to exploit pop psychology IN ATTEMPTS TO DESCRIBE PERSONALLY PERCEIVED FAULTS I

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

Ironic, yet natural, that what Abd is trying to catalyze Jed to understand about Rossi, Rich is trying to catalyze Abd to understand about all cold fusion claims to date -- rather than continue to blather forever about claims that go back 22 years, let's consider whether any evidence has been found

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

>From Rich: The following is obviously abbreviated and probably taken out of context: > ...rather than continue to blather forever about claims that go back 22 years, Ah, I see the "blather" word is now being used to explain CF claims for the past 22 years. Look, Rich, expressing your skepticis

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

as mighty mensch, I don't try to catalyze, I do catalyze... these are tough big boys, highly competent at maintaining their own, happy to play on multiple levels... In mutual service, Rich

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

OrionWorks - Steven V Johnson wrote: Well, Jed, maybe you're right at the cusp of a complete If Mr. Murray's propensity to exploit pop psychology persists I think it may warrant a temporary time out from the Vort sand box. The text is about me. It seems harmless. I auto-delete Murray's mes

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

At 01:57 PM 8/4/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote: I wrote: Except that the data recorded in a boiler test is EXACTLY what you see here, for crying out loud! To be more specific, I mean that they record only one value for temperature and one for the flow, even though these values probably fluctuate

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: Imagining that testing an experimental device with unknown operating > characteristics can be handled with a boiler form is what's preposterous. > The operating characteristics are not unknown. They are readily apparent. Anyone can the thing produces heat at a stable r

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

At 02:32 PM 8/4/2011, Jed Rothwell wrote: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: No boiler is designed to create very wet steam as a possibility. Now, the 18-hour test doesn't involve steam. That was the point. But no boiler will be tested with water at a liter per second! That is incorrect. A large bo

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

At 07:51 AM 8/5/2011, Terry Blanton wrote: On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 2:15 AM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: > At 01:48 AM 8/4/2011, Rich Murray wrote: >> >> Thanks, Abd, for being so forthright > > My sense is that most cold fusion researchers have become quite skeptical > about Rossi. You have surv

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

Rich, I see Mr. Rothwell has found his own unique way of assessing your assessments of his alleged faults. According to Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mensch ...the Yiddish term "mensch" means "a person of integrity and honor". Actually, your response is somewhat cryptic and open to in

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: > No boiler would be tested with absolute maximum possible flow rate, raising > the temperature only five degrees, with the measurement being taken inside > the boiler, instead of external to it. That is incorrect. I have seen people do boiler tests with small Delta

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

Re: “DESCRIBE PERSONALLY PERCEIVED FAULTS IN OTHERS” This predisposition of many mainstream critics of out-of-the-box thinkers as abnormal and aberrant is deeply rooted in human nature as an evolutionary adaptation fostered by natural selection to enhance the survival of the race. The hum

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

At 09:15 AM 8/5/2011, Enzo wrote: On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 8:15 AM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: > By the way, the 18-hour test, on its own, certainly seems convincing, but > the problem is that we can't trust it. It's seems to me that most of the people talking about Rossi-Focardi would like to h

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 10:05 PM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote: > At 09:15 AM 8/5/2011, Enzo wrote: >> 1) Rossi-Focardi had given a private demonstration of their reactor to >> the University of Bologna (the so called 18-hour test) which later >> signed a contract to study the reactor. > > You have c

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

eee, maybe Rich is a "which" doctor...

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

Yes, this describes Rich very well during his 69 years of life -- here is his most recent epistle attempting to lure others into unusual scientific researches: On Fri, Aug 5, 2011 at 1:30 PM, Axil Axil wrote: > Re: “DESCRIBE PERSONALLY PERCEIVED FAULTS IN OTHERS” > > This predisposition of many m

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

when someone appears within awareness who needs bread, then responses flow giving bread, not stone -- however, the form of the bread varies greatly, just as the form of the need varies greatly -- what flows from me to others is at worse harmless in outcome, or at best, liberating... if there seem t

RE: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

>From Rich: > when someone appears within awareness who needs bread, > then responses flow giving bread, not stone -- however, the > form of the bread varies greatly, just as the form of the need > varies greatly -- what flows from me to others is at worse > harmless in outcome, or at best

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

ah, a kindred soul! eloquent, profound, gentle, halarious, keen, subtle... I accept all of your spontaneous power. I let you all the way in, For communication, cooperation, collaboration, communion, union, Asking for help To grow and serve timelessly limitlessly As uniquely all of single creative

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

Prof. Sergio Focardi on FaceBook http://www.facebook.com/pages/Prof-Sergio-Focardi/116761995001742

Re: [Vo]:18-hour test is no less detailed than a boiler test report

http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/02/%E2%80%98dr-sanjay-gupta-reports-the-last-heart-attack%E2%80%99-%E2%80%93-a-mission-possible/ "The new one-hour documentary, Dr. Sanjay Gupta Reports: The Last Heart Attack focuses on the latest heart disease prevention science. It debuts Sunday, Aug.