On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 4:43 PM, Jones Beene wrote:
> Fran,
>
>
>
> I think you may know this but if not – it is clear and beyond doubt that
> Naudin made serious measurement errors in calculating the input current in
> the MAHG experiment, and these have never been corrected, AFAIK.
>
>
>
> As for
Fran,
I think you may know this but if not - it is clear and beyond doubt that
Naudin made serious measurement errors in calculating the input current in
the MAHG experiment, and these have never been corrected, AFAIK.
As for Langmuir and the hydrogen torch, I think there could still be
som
s is true, then increasing
the repetition rate of short pulses should show changes in the thermal
performance of the cell. So far, Naudin has not made such tests to my
knowledge.
The heat pulses could also launch cascades of BLP H/hydrino catalysis
reactions.
Such are my thoughts to date.
Mike Car
Jones is making good points, but
> You (Robin, at least) is willing to accept Mills equally
> surprising claims - whereas Mills gives almost zero detail, and
> often bases his P-out claims on guess-timates of what the power
> would be IF the photon radiation were converted, and yet in
> comparison
> From: Terry Blanton
> > From: "Jones Beene"
>
> > This is something that should be pretty easy to ascertain right
> > away...
>
> I was under the impression that the values on his chart were rms (root mean
> square) since that's what the Fluke measures.
http://jlnlabs.imars.com/mahg/tests
Hi George,
Not wanting to waste anymore bandwidth on this
device than is necessary, if it is not OU, I sent the following
message to intereseted parties, which I hope gets to JNL or to Nicholas Moller
very soon - as they are difficult to contact directly. COPY of
posting:
A serious quest
> From: "Jones Beene"
> This is something that should be pretty easy to ascertain right
> away...
I was under the impression that the values on his chart were rms (root mean
square) since that's what the Fluke measures.
Hi Jones,
> > OK, now I see what you are saying but how does an auto battery
> > provide 166 amps, even if it is peak? Is this what you really
> > think is really happening ?
It certainly looks possible. Batteries are capable of surprisingly
high peak currents and the pulse width here is only
Hi George,
One more thing...
OK, now I see what you are saying but how does an auto battery
provide 166 amps, even if it is peak? Is this what you really
think is really happening ?
IF he is getting a reading at the battery itself - of about 1/3+
amp average current - then you would agree
Jones Beene wrote:
George,
Actually 166 A (peak)* 12 V(peak) * .05 (duty factor) gives about
100 watts input at an average current of about 8 A
and an average voltage of .6 V.
OK, now I see what you are saying but how does an auto battery provide
166 amps, even if it is peak?
The sh
Jones,
> George,
>
> > Actually 166 A (peak)* 12 V(peak) * .05 (duty factor) gives
> > about
> > 100 watts input at an average current of about 8 A
> > and an average voltage of .6 V.
>
> OK, now I see what you are saying but how does an auto battery
> provide 166 amps, even if it is peak? Is th
George,
Actually 166 A (peak)* 12 V(peak) * .05 (duty factor) gives
about
100 watts input at an average current of about 8 A
and an average voltage of .6 V.
OK, now I see what you are saying but how does an auto battery
provide 166 amps, even if it is peak? Is this what you really
think i
Hi Jones,
You wrote:
> Hey, Robin and George... wait a minute
>
> Naudin apparently incorporated the low duty cycle in his
> calculations (in a non-standard way) by figuring the "average
> value" by multiplying the peak voltage (from a 12 volt power DC
> battery power supply) by the duty c
Hey, Robin and George... wait a minute
Naudin apparently incorporated the low duty cycle in his
calculations (in a non-standard way) by figuring the "average
value" by multiplying the peak voltage (from a 12 volt power DC
battery power supply) by the duty cycle to give an average voltage
In reply to George Holz's message of Thu, 07 Jul 2005 14:38:08
-0400:
Hi,
[snip]
>What assumptions did you make to allow the calculation of input
>power during the pulse? Are the numbers that JLN reports actually
>average voltage and current as the labels, now changed, on his
>web site once indica
Jones wrote:
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Mike Carrell"
>
> > Yes, these reactions could go to completion, as Peter and
> Jones have
> > observed, but none of Naudin's runs have gone on long
> enough to test this.
> > Two hours just isn't enough.
>
> But its the same cell, Mike, ove
Steve wrote,
> Perhaps a form of Finite Element Method Analysis might help in reducing
the amount of guesswork involved.
>
> Mike, it seems to me that this kind of analysis might actually be up your
alley!
Steve, I appreciate your confidence, but FEM is heavy duty math, beyond my
capability to u
I've made no assumption regarding input power, except to comment that
it's not enough to heat the filament- based solely on the specific heat
of tungsten. To supply 200 Joules in a 10-ms pulse, for example, would
require a power of 20 KW. Ain't happening.
George Holz wrote:
Bob Fickle wro
Bob Fickle wrote:
" I have " ...attempted to estimate how fast the filament will
heat up. From the description on JLN's web page, I estimate the
filament has a mass of about 1.2g, and would require about 200
Joules to heat from an average temperature of ~700K to the
"operating" temperature o
Bob Fickle wrote:
> I have " ...attempted to estimate how fast the filament will heat up".
> From the description on JLN's web page, I estimate the filament has a
> mass of about 1.2g, and would require about 200 Joules to heat from an
> average temperature of ~700K to the "operating" temperatu
- Original Message -
From: "Mike Carrell"
Yes, these reactions could go to completion, as Peter and
Jones have
> observed,
With only a few milligrams of H2 as fill - if fusion or
hydrino reactions were going on - as Terry and others
noticed immediately, even the few micrograms remove
I have " ...attempted to estimate how fast the filament will heat up".
From the description on JLN's web page, I estimate the filament has a
mass of about 1.2g, and would require about 200 Joules to heat from an
average temperature of ~700K to the "operating" temperature of 2000K.
The input d
> From: "Jones Beene"
> > From: "Mike Carrell"
>
> > Yes, these reactions could go to completion,
> > as Peter andJones have observed, but none of
> > Naudin's runs have gone on long
> > enough to test this. Two hours just isn't enough.
>
> But its the same cell, Mike, over and over ! He
> has
- Original Message -
From: "Mike Carrell"
> Yes, these reactions could go to completion, as Peter and
Jones have
> observed, but none of Naudin's runs have gone on long
enough to test this.
> Two hours just isn't enough.
But its the same cell, Mike, over and over ! He has nearly
100 doc
This is getting most interesting. Moller threads together some ideas derived
[perhaps not correctly] from Langmuir and builds a cell. Naudin runs tests
on the cell and finds interesting apparently OU heat anomalies. The cell is
an ideal black box and we don't get to peek inside to see what is going
Jones Beene wrote:
Ed,
Perhaps, but I suggest the more likely reaction is p + d = He3. This
possibility can be tested by adding a little D2O to the cell. Going
from the normal 6000 ppm to 1% should make a big difference in heat
generation.
Excellent idea Jones. Given the rarity of He3,
Ed,
I believe I do have fusion reaction products. In 2001 (or so) I had the good fortune to talk with Tom Clator about fusion from my device. His later experiments and literature also reveal Tritium production from a different type of Plasma. As I recall it was about 2000 volts but I do not rem
Under the general category of "I'd rather be lucky than good" we
find a list of discoveries which were not exactly precisely
anticipated, but yet required a fair share of diligence and/or
insight in order to develop into a "real" invention. I think
Moller's "Eureka moment" may fit in this categ
> From: Jed Rothwell
> "Wha th' matter with you? Cat got your tungsten?"
>
> "Yeth, and she won't le' go."
LOL! I think it was comedian Steve Wright:
"I gave my cat a bath the other day. She really enjoyed it but I hated all
that hair on my tongue."
> From: Jed Rothwell
> Terry Blanton wrote:
>
> >Yes, but the symbol on the periodic table is W. To
> > me 'tungsten' sounds
> >like anatomy.
>
> Ah . . . As in:
>
> "Wha th' matter with you? Cat got your tungsten?"
>
> "Yeth, and she won't le' go."
>
>
> - Jed (who has spent the last 6 ho
Terry Blanton wrote:
Yes, but the symbol on the periodic table is W. To me 'tungsten' sounds
like anatomy.
Ah . . . As in:
"Wha th' matter with you? Cat got your tungsten?"
"Yeth, and she won't le' go."
- Jed (who has spent the last 6 hours wading through Japanese papers on
isotopes, SIM
> From: Jed Rothwell
> Wolf . . . You mean tungsten.
:-)
Yes, but the symbol on the periodic table is W. To me 'tungsten' sounds like
anatomy.
Terry Blanton wrote:
According to the referenced paper, the presence of water can kill the
reaction due to oxidation of the Wolfram.
Wolf . . . You mean tungsten.
. . . But, obviously one cannot have much confidence in Moller if he
confuses c & C.
And obviously ve cannot have much confi
Well Chris, looks like you already have some evidence for nuclear
reaction products. Your set up is identical to the plasma cells using
water, in as far as interaction at the W surface is concerned. You
split H2 into H+ at the W surface, while a plasma using H2O also forms
H+ at the W surface
In this case, he should add D2 to the H2.
Ed
Terry Blanton wrote:
From: Edmund Storms >
This
possibility can be tested by adding a little D2O to the cell.
According to the referenced paper, the presence of water can kill the reaction due
to oxidation of the Wolfram. But, obviously one
> From: Edmund Storms >
> This
> possibility can be tested by adding a little D2O to the cell.
According to the referenced paper, the presence of water can kill the reaction
due to oxidation of the Wolfram. But, obviously one cannot have much
confidence in Moller if he confuses c & C.
Ed,
Perhaps the vanishing coulomb barrier would explain why gas I produce in my reactors registers as radioactive in my tritium monitor, and why SEM w/EDS spectrum is so strange as to suggest transmutations and why Nuclear Magnetic Resonance spectrum produced from my materials comes back as unid
Jones Beene wrote:
Ed,
I would like to suggest that all plasma experiments, including
Naudin's obtain their extra energy from cold fusion.
Then what would be the reaction? H+H -->D + e ?
Perhaps, but I suggest the more likely reaction is p + d = He3. This
possibility can be tested by a
> From: Terry Blanton
> > From: "Jones Beene"
>
> > that should be H+H+e -->D
>
> Then hydrogen will be consumed and the cell efficiency should decrease over
> time.
We should also see transmutation products in the reactor vessel metals.
Ed, that was a refreshing post.
ChrisEdmund Storms <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I would like to suggest that all plasma experiments, including Naudin's obtain their extra energy from cold fusion. In this case, the tungsten cathode is the nuclear active environment into which p+ and d+ are driven b
> From: "Jones Beene"
> that should be H+H+e -->D
Then hydrogen will be consumed and the cell efficiency should decrease over
time.
oops...
Then what would be the reaction? H+H -->D + e ?
that should be H+H+e -->D
Terry,
Yes. The sequential process of dissociation/recombination in a
plasma or gas is not OU. Too bad that error keeps getting
repeated.
You realize, of course, that this is the entire basis for
Naudin's M(oller)AHG experiments.
Not exactly. I think they realize that the tungsten metal
i
Ed,
I would like to suggest that all plasma experiments, including
Naudin's obtain their extra energy from cold fusion.
Then what would be the reaction? H+H -->D + e ?
A transmutation reaction with the W would need to overcome far
higher Coulomb repulsion forces, no?
Jones
I would like to suggest that all plasma experiments, including Naudin's
obtain their extra energy from cold fusion. In this case, the tungsten
cathode is the nuclear active environment into which p+ and d+ are
driven by the high voltages used. The unstable nature of the plasma,
either by natu
> From: "Jones Beene"
> Yes. The sequential process of dissociation/recombination in a
> plasma or gas is not OU. Too bad that error keeps getting
> repeated.
You realize, of course, that this is the entire basis for Naudin's M(oller)AHG
experiments.
I am continuing to look into this. Unfort
- Original Message -
From: "Terry Blanton"
Well, it is the "c/C" error in the original article ... if we
are
on the same page.
"From Langmuir's experiments and findings we know that the
minimum calorific value for the recombination of atoms was
agreed to be in the region 90.000 cal
> From: "Jones Beene"
> Well, it is the "c/C" error in the original article ... if we are
> on the same page.
Quoting:
"From Langmuir's experiments and findings we know that the minimum calorific
value for the recombination of atoms was agreed to be in the region 90.000
cal/gram molecule.
Mine or the Inet's? Pls to explain the error.
Well, it is the "c/C" error in the original article ... if we are
on the same page.
> From: "Jones Beene"
... so how does
> one stop this pathology?
Mine or the Inet's? Pls to explain the error.
Okay, Jonesee:
http://jlnlabs.imars.com/mahg/article.htm
p. 12 toward the bottom.
It's all relative. Pls 'splain.
I wasn't saying that the error was not there, just that errors
often keep reproducing themselves indiscriminantly over the
internet ( I've probably been responsible for
> From: Terry Blanton
> > From: "Jones Beene"
> >
> > In a word, no.
> >
> > I think someone musta left out a "k" ... or else was on the diet
> > of worms.. ;-) ... as the dietary Calorie (the oft-neglected
> > use of upper case 'C') equals 1000 'physics' calories.
>
> Okay, Jonesee:
>
> From: "Jones Beene"
>
> In a word, no.
>
> I think someone musta left out a "k" ... or else was on the diet
> of worms.. ;-) ... as the dietary Calorie (the oft-neglected
> use of upper case 'C') equals 1000 'physics' calories.
Okay, Jonesee:
http://jlnlabs.imars.com/mahg/article.htm
T.B. > Sorry, I'm slow; but, I finally read the referenced paper
from JLN's web page. If I read it correctly (I hate it when
Europeans use periods instead of commas), the dissociation energy
of H2 is 103 cal/gram-mole while the recombination energy is
90,000 cal/gram-mole giving a COP of about
Sorry, I'm slow; but, I finally read the referenced paper from JLN's web page.
If I read it correctly (I hate it when Europeans use periods instead of
commas), the dissociation energy of H2 is 103 cal/gram-mole while the
recombination energy is 90,000 cal/gram-mole giving a COP of about 874.
I
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