ber
To: vortex-l
Sent: 5/10/2006 3:10:53 AM
Subject: RE: Joe Cell Theories
If I get ambitious enough to build the cell for use on the
$195.00 4-cycle (0.97 cubic inch) Remote Control (RC) model ICE I ordered.
Easier to use in the kitchen using an electric drill or screwdriver to crank
it over, a
ting recombination of 2 H to H2 or 2 O to O2 etc. would
be less.
A friend in Michigan got a cost estimate on the Joe Cell from a machine shop.
It was a pricey $1,200.00. :-)
Fred
- Original Message -
From: Frederick Sparber
To: vortex-l
Sent: 5/10/2006 1:42:46 AM
Subject: RE: Joe Ce
The Joe Cell plans call for a 2 inch diameter cathode
surrounded by three concentric floating cylinders
3 inch, 4 inch, 5 inch, surrounded by the 6 inch diameter anode.
For water with Megohm-meter resistivity (rho) between the cylinders
the resistance R = rho*spacing/Area acts as a resistance-c
As is typical for UK websites here's an excellent article on batteries
with pictures. They're not stingy with good information. :-)
http://www.doitpoms.ac.uk/tlplib/batteries/printall.php
Despite the low current attainable with 12 volts applied
to the cell the approximately 0.6 square mete
Robin wrote.
>
> In reply to Frederick Sparber's message of Sat, 6 May 2006
> 03:13:18 -0600:
> Hi,
> [snip]
> >Slight problems.
> >
> >The resistivity of high purity (de-ionized) water runs about 15
Megohm-cm at 26 C.
>
> [snip]
> If a hydrino fusion reaction is producing the energy in the
> cyl
In reply to Frederick Sparber's message of Sat, 6 May 2006
03:13:18 -0600:
Hi,
[snip]
>Slight problems.
>
>The resistivity of high purity (de-ionized) water runs about 15 Megohm-cm at
>26 C.
>
>With the cylindrical configuration of the Cell, unless it was filled with 30
>ohm-cm
>seawater the mos
Grimer wrote.
>
> Fred wrote:
>
> >Not much torque there,if I didn't goof, Frank.
> >
> >Fred
>
>
> I fear you might have Fred since I believe that the mechanism
> of operation of the radiometer is a bit different from the
> one you seem to be assuming. Something to do with the edges
> of the va
Terry writes.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Frederick Sparber
>
> > They use glow wires in lieu of arcs, n'est-ce pas? Arks might be
> > important. :-)
> >
> Translation please. :-)
>
> <><><><><><>
>
> Those hobby engines use glow wires, similar to what is used to start
> diesel eng
-Original Message-
From: Frederick Sparber
They use glow wires in lieu of arcs, n'est-ce pas? Arks might be
important. :-)
Translation please. :-)
<><><><><><>
Those hobby engines use glow wires, similar to what is used to start
diesel engines in cold weather. The Joe Cell eng
At 01:58 pm 06/05/2006 -0600, you wrote:
>Grimer wrote.
>>
>> You seem very fond of calculating things, Fred. How about
>> working out the relation between size and power output?
>>
>Actually at the optimum 0.2 Torr pressure for the Radiometer
>the kinetic theory equation for the number of atoms-m
At 01:03 pm 06/05/2006 -0600, Fred wrote:
> Grimer wrote:
>>
>> Would one be better off with one big one or lots of
>> little ones, or even a long cylindrical one?
>>
> Are you thinking about energy, or sex, Frank? :-)
>
> Fred
As the other Frank says in that popular song,
# This I tell yo
Grimer wrote.
>
> You seem very fond of calculating things, Fred. How about
> working out the relation between size and power output?
>
Actually at the optimum 0.2 Torr pressure for the Radiometer
the kinetic theory equation for the number of atoms-molecules
striking a unit surface area per seco
Terry wrote.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Frederick Sparber
>
> If they won't, I'm in possession of $282.97 (inc S&H) worth of experience
> .:-)
>
> <><><><><><>
>
> They use glow wires in lieu of arcs, n'est-ce pas? Arks might be
> important. :-)
>
Translation please. :-)
"To spea
Grimer wrote:
>
> Would one be better off with one big one or lots of
> little ones, or even a long cylindrical one?
>
Are you thinking about energy, or sex, Frank? :-)
Fred
> [Original Message]
> From: Grimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To:
> Date: 5/6/2006 12:21
-Original Message-
From: Frederick Sparber
If they won't, I'm in possesion of $282.97 (inc S&H) worth of experience
.:-)
<><><><><><>
They use glow wires in lieu of arcs, n'est-ce pas? Arks might be
important. :-)
Terry
___
Try
At 12:08 pm 06/05/2006 -0600, Fred wrote:
>I wrote.
>>
>> I really don't care about the theory if .etc.
>>
>> No matter what theory fits, there's only a few practical ways to
>> get shaft power out of nature's energy sources.
>>
>Undeterred by the early Greek philosophy that in effect said tha
I wrote.
>
> I really don't care about the theory if .etc.
>
> No matter what theory fits, there's only a few practical ways to
> get shaft power out of nature's energy sources.
>
Undeterred by the early Greek philosophy that in effect said that
everything can be figured out mentally, Crookes'
Frederick Sparber wrote.
>
> Solve that Liquid-Solid or Gas-Solid Interface Phenomena problem
> Jones, and you will have the answer to Ed storms' Nuclear Active Sites,
> CANR-LENR
> effects, Fleischmann & Pons, Mizuno-Ohmori, and all the rest too. :-)
>
> Fred
I really don't care about the the
Solve that Liquid-Solid or Gas-Solid Interface Phenomena problem
Jones, and you will have the answer to Ed storms' Nuclear Active Sites,
CANR-LENR
effects, Fleischmann & Pons, Mizuno-Ohmori, and all the rest too. :-)
Fred
ortex-l
> Date: 5/6/2006 8:53:55 AM
> Subject: RE: Joe Cell Theories
>
>
> --- Frederick Sparber wrote:
>
> > OTOH, treating the Cell as a stacked series of
> cylindrical electrolytic capacitors doesn't do much
> either. Unless the approximately 0.7 square meter
> Met
: vortex-l
Sent: 5/6/2006 3:54:03 AM
Subject: RE: Joe Cell Theories
>
> OTOH, treating the Cell as a stacked series of cylindrical electrolytic capacitors
> doesn't do much either.
>
Unless the approximately 0.7 square meter Metal-Water Helmholtz
Double-Layer Interface in t
--- Frederick Sparber wrote:
> OTOH, treating the Cell as a stacked series of
cylindrical electrolytic capacitors doesn't do much
either. Unless the approximately 0.7 square meter
Metal-Water Helmholtz Double-Layer Interface in the
Cell under low pressure boiling conditions is
generating Beta A
ta Aether-Casimir Force-ZPE-Supercapacitor
"Exploding Capacitor" OU Effect "gases". Maybe?
- Original Message -
From: Frederick Sparber
To: vortex-l
Sent: 5/6/2006 3:14:02 AM
Subject: RE: Joe Cell Theories
Slight problems.
The resistivity of high purity (de-ionized)
Slight problems.
The resistivity of high purity (de-ionized) water runs about 15 Megohm-cm at 26 C.
With the cylindrical configuration of the Cell, unless it was filled with 30 ohm-cm
seawater the most current attainable using a 12 volt battery with 1500 ohm-cm
water (4 orders of magnitude r
The easiest way is try something simple without profound theories
is to employ an insulator-spaced stack of 100 stainless steel Fender Washers
(1.5 inch diameter) on a nylon rod using 120 volts rectified with a full-wave bridge placed in
a horizontal water filled and capped 2.0 inch diameter
Robin/all,
> >My challenge: how about a few simple protocols for reproducible
> experiments
> >to test some of the theories previously discussed here?
>
> Here's a relatively simple test to see if hydrinos are fusing with
> nitrogen to create O15 in the engine.
[snip]
Thanks for your input.
As
--- Frederick Sparber wrote:
> Do you need any current, really?
At first, the full implications of this observation
did not dawn on me.
One would normally think that to charge a capacitor,
electrical current of the normal EM variety is
required. And I'm not sure how Fred meant it, but
Robin s
In reply to Grimer's message of
Thu, 04 May 2006 19:05:19 +0100:
Hi Frank,
(Grimer wrote)
> I would think that you do. I see the current as putting
> the equivalent of a mechanical stress on the water and
> "cracking" it open. These cavitation cracks could be at
> negative pressures of up t
Seeing as how there are a couple of boys (13 & 14 and me) looking
for a summer hobby, I ordered these, from this outfit in Michigan.
http://www.rchobbies.org/
4 cycle:
http://h1071118.hobbyshopnow.com/products/description.asp?prod=SAIE056
2 Cycle:
http://h1071118.hobbyshopnow.com/pr
ne
in his quiet neighborhood. :-)
Fred
- Original Message -
From: Frederick Sparber
To: vortex-l
Sent: 5/5/2006 5:53:29 AM
Subject: Re: Joe Cell Theories
Jones wrote: >> ...>>>> Obviously no current will flow
Jones wrote: >> ... Obviously no current will flow under these conditions>> of around one+ volt - were it not for the remarkable>> ability of a piston engine to draw a powerful partial>> vacuum extremely fast, and create this micro-bub
In reply to Jones Beene's message of Thu, 4 May 2006 07:19:42
-0700 (PDT):
Hi,
[snip]
>There is a 'sort of' mundane explanation - mundane to
>a Jules Verne mentality maybe - for a hypothetical
>method whereby electrolyzed water vapor can act as a
>fuel. It actually should be the starting point for
In reply to Patrick Vessey's message of Thu, 4 May 2006 19:40:12
+0100:
Hi,
[snip]
>My challenge: how about a few simple protocols for reproducible experiments
>to test some of the theories previously discussed here?
Here's a relatively simple test to see if hydrinos are fusing with
nitrogen to c
Hi Fred/all,
> A bit short on accuracy there, Patrick. :-)
By posting Tom's comments, I wasn't intending to suggest my support for
them.
Rather, I was taking a bit of a pointy stick and pushing it into the vort
nest :-)
I personally have seen nothing to convince me that Joe/similar cells
actua
Jones wrote:
>> ...
>>
>> Obviously no current will flow under these conditions
>> of around one+ volt - were it not for the remarkable
>> ability of a piston engine to draw a powerful partial
>> vacuum extremely fast, and create this mic
Jones Beene wrote.
>
> I think it would indeed be helpful to document all of
> the possible theories of operation - even though,
> AFAIK there is no well-documented evidence that any of
> the many designs alternatives works in a robust w
lot of Speculation, but, Unfortunately, IMO not
enough to Scare The Hell out of The Energy Interests. :-)
Fred
- Original Message -
From: Frederick Sparber
To: vortex-l
Sent: 5/4/2006 6:35:44 AM
Subject: RE: Joe Cell Theories
Using these calculators for the Otto or Diesel Cy
Patrick Vessey/Tom Kramer wrote..
Now it is also important to understand the SHAPE of water and its
relatedhydrogen bonding. Under normal conditions the two hydrogen
atoms are atabout a 105o angle to each other (not 90o) due to the fact that
similarcharges oppose each other. This angle, how
Using these calculators for the Otto or Diesel Cycle,
see what substituting a 4 Liter (half full) Jug of Beer for the Joe Cell
will do pulling a 0.25 Atmosphere Vacuum on it.
http://members.aol.com/engware/calc3.htm
The Inversion Temperature:
" the 'normal' effect of cooling when a gas
Now that you have the basics, Patrick, go to the
OTTO CYCLE and Plug In The Numbers.
Vary , AMBIENT & COMBUSTION TEMPERATURE and PRESSURE, ONLY.
As you can see at 300 K Ambient, 0.25 Atmosphere Ambient (Intake Manifold) Pressure,
500 K Combustion Temp at a 7.0 compression ratio, you can
Suck
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