Re: [whatwg] Window id - a proposal to leverage session usage in web application

2010-02-10 Thread Martin Atkins
Sebastian Hennebrueder wrote: thank you for the feedback. I hope that I see your point correctly. You are right, that for JavaScript based applications this can easily be solved with a sessionStorage. All technologies around GoogleWebToolkit, Dojo, Echo etc which hold the state in the client

Re: [whatwg] script postonload

2010-02-10 Thread Anne van Kesteren
On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:06:07 +0100, Steve Souders st...@souders.org wrote: I'd like to propose the addition of a POSTONLOAD attribute to the SCRIPT tag. The behavior would be similar to DEFER, but instead of delaying downloads until after parsing they would be delayed until after the

Re: [whatwg] comments on SCRIPT ASYNC and DEFER

2010-02-10 Thread Henri Sivonen
On Feb 8, 2010, at 23:54, Steve Souders wrote: It would be good to mention this optional behavior here, something along the lines of browsers may want to do speculative parsing, but shouldn't create DOM elements, etc. - only kickoff HTTP requests. FWIW, the HTML5 parser in Gecko (not on by

[whatwg] Step base for input type=week

2010-02-10 Thread TAMURA, Kent
The default step base for type=week should be -259,200,000 (the beginning of 1970-W01) instead of 0. If an implementation follows the current spec and an input element has no min attribute, stepMismatch for the element never be false because the step base is not aligned to the beginning of a

Re: [whatwg] Window id - a proposal to leverage session usage in web application

2010-02-10 Thread Sebastian Hennebrueder
Martin Atkins schrieb: Sebastian Hennebrueder wrote: thank you for the feedback. I hope that I see your point correctly. You are right, that for JavaScript based applications this can easily be solved with a sessionStorage. All technologies around GoogleWebToolkit, Dojo, Echo etc which hold

Re: [whatwg] [html5] r4685 - [e] (0) Add an example of forcing fallback from source.

2010-02-10 Thread Simon Pieters
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 03:27:45 +0100, wha...@whatwg.org wrote: Author: ianh Date: 2010-02-09 18:27:42 -0800 (Tue, 09 Feb 2010) New Revision: 4685 Modified: complete.html index source Log: [e] (0) Add an example of forcing fallback from source. Modified: complete.html

Re: [whatwg] URN or protocol attribute

2010-02-10 Thread Simon Pieters
On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:55:56 +0100, Martin Atkins m...@degeneration.co.uk wrote: Brett Zamir wrote: Hi, Internet Explorer has an attribute on anchor elements for URNs: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms534710%28VS.85%29.aspx Internet Explorer supports a non-standard attribute

Re: [whatwg] URN or protocol attribute

2010-02-10 Thread Thomas Broyer
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 1:36 PM, Simon Pieters wrote: On Wed, 10 Feb 2010 08:55:56 +0100, Martin Atkins wrote: Brett Zamir wrote: Hi,  Internet Explorer has an attribute on anchor elements for URNs: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms534710%28VS.85%29.aspx Internet Explorer

Re: [whatwg] Making cross-domain overlays more user-friendly

2010-02-10 Thread Scott González
The big disadvantage to this proposal is that it won't work until browsers implement the functionality, which would discourage anyone from using it since the fallback is that no overlay/infobar is presented. Rowan's implementation will allow the overlay/infobar to be displayed, but would keep the

Re: [whatwg] video feedback

2010-02-10 Thread Brian Campbell
On Feb 9, 2010, at 9:03 PM, Ian Hickson wrote: On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, Brian Campbell wrote: As a multimedia developer, I am wondering about the purpose of the timeupdate event on media elements. It's primary use is keeping the UIs updated (specifically the timers and the scrubber bars).

Re: [whatwg] Making cross-domain overlays more user-friendly

2010-02-10 Thread Rowan Nairn
Right. With this type of proposal we lose the degrade gracefully property which means implementors have to do twice the amount of work or more. I also think an attribute on hyperlinks is not the way to go (at least not the only way). Remember that the entity that is providing the infobar will

Re: [whatwg] comments on SCRIPT ASYNC and DEFER

2010-02-10 Thread Steve Souders
In the current text, it says must then be fetched. In my suggestion I say should not start until after parsing. Saying should instead of must leaves the opening for browsers that feel they can fetch immediately without negatively impacting performance. -Steve On 2/9/2010 6:39 PM, Boris

Re: [whatwg] video feedback

2010-02-10 Thread Eric Carlson
On Feb 10, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Brian Campbell wrote: On Feb 9, 2010, at 9:03 PM, Ian Hickson wrote: On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, Brian Campbell wrote: At 4 timeupdate events per second, it isn't all that useful. I can replace it with setInterval, at whatever rate I want, query the time, and get

Re: [whatwg] comments on SCRIPT ASYNC and DEFER

2010-02-10 Thread Steve Souders
Two common scenarios where scripts aren't put at the bottom: - Having talked to web devs across hundreds of companies it's often the case that they control a certain section of the page. Inserting content outside of that section requires changing so much infrastructure, they skip the

Re: [whatwg] script postonload

2010-02-10 Thread Steve Souders
Being able to replicate the behavior in JavaScript is not a valid reason to reject the proposal. For example, all the behavior of DEFER and ASYNC can be replicated using JavaScript and yet those attributes are also proposed. The point is to lower the bar to get wider adoption. Adding DEFER is

Re: [whatwg] video feedback

2010-02-10 Thread Boris Zbarsky
On 2/10/10 1:37 PM, Eric Carlson wrote: Have you actually tried this? Rendering video frames to a canvas and processing every pixel from script is *extremely* processor intensive, you are unlikely to get reasonable frame rate. There's a demo that does just this at

Re: [whatwg] video feedback

2010-02-10 Thread Brian Campbell
On Feb 10, 2010, at 1:37 PM, Eric Carlson wrote: On Feb 10, 2010, at 8:01 AM, Brian Campbell wrote: On Feb 9, 2010, at 9:03 PM, Ian Hickson wrote: On Sat, 31 Oct 2009, Brian Campbell wrote: At 4 timeupdate events per second, it isn't all that useful. I can replace it with

Re: [whatwg] script postonload

2010-02-10 Thread Boris Zbarsky
On 2/10/10 1:55 PM, Steve Souders wrote: Being able to replicate the behavior in JavaScript is not a valid reason to reject the proposal. No, but it _is_ a reason to carefully consider the complexity the proposal introduces against the possible benefits of the proposal and to perhaps examine

Re: [whatwg] video feedback

2010-02-10 Thread Boris Zbarsky
On 2/10/10 2:19 PM, Brian Campbell wrote: Do browsers fire events for which there are no listeners? It varies. Gecko, for example, fires image load events not matter what but only fires mutation events if there are listeners. -Boris

Re: [whatwg] script postonload

2010-02-10 Thread Jonas Sicking
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 12:57 AM, Anne van Kesteren ann...@opera.com wrote: On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:06:07 +0100, Steve Souders st...@souders.org wrote: I'd like to propose the addition of a POSTONLOAD attribute to the SCRIPT tag. The behavior would be similar to DEFER, but instead of delaying

Re: [whatwg] script postonload

2010-02-10 Thread Jonas Sicking
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Boris Zbarsky bzbar...@mit.edu wrote: For example, all the behavior of DEFER and ASYNC can be replicated using JavaScript That's not the case, actually.  The behavior of DEFER (eager load start, deferred script execution, not blocking the parser or other

Re: [whatwg] script postonload

2010-02-10 Thread Jonas Sicking
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Jonas Sicking jo...@sicking.cc wrote: On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 12:57 AM, Anne van Kesteren ann...@opera.com wrote: On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:06:07 +0100, Steve Souders st...@souders.org wrote: I'd like to propose the addition of a POSTONLOAD attribute to the

Re: [whatwg] video feedback

2010-02-10 Thread Jonas Sicking
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 11:29 AM, Boris Zbarsky bzbar...@mit.edu wrote: On 2/10/10 2:19 PM, Brian Campbell wrote: Do browsers fire events for which there are no listeners? It varies.  Gecko, for example, fires image load events not matter what but only fires mutation events if there are

Re: [whatwg] script postonload

2010-02-10 Thread Boris Zbarsky
On 2/10/10 2:44 PM, Jonas Sicking wrote: ASYNC can be implemented in most browsers actually. Yes, I was pretty careful with my use of in a cross-browser manner... ;) -Boris

Re: [whatwg] comments on SCRIPT ASYNC and DEFER

2010-02-10 Thread Jonas Sicking
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 10:49 AM, Steve Souders wha...@souders.org wrote: Two common scenarios where scripts aren't put at the bottom:    - Having talked to web devs across hundreds of companies it's often the case that they control a certain section of the page. Inserting content outside of

Re: [whatwg] video feedback

2010-02-10 Thread Robert O'Callahan
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 8:19 AM, Brian Campbell lam...@continuation.orgwrote: But no, this isn't something I would consider to be production quality. But perhaps if the WebGL typed arrays catch on, and start being used in more places, you might be able to start doing this with reasonable

Re: [whatwg] video feedback

2010-02-10 Thread Gregory Maxwell
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 4:37 PM, Robert O'Callahan rob...@ocallahan.org wrote: On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 8:19 AM, Brian Campbell lam...@continuation.org wrote: But no, this isn't something I would consider to be production quality. But perhaps if the WebGL typed arrays catch on, and start being

Re: [whatwg] script postonload

2010-02-10 Thread Jonas Sicking
On Wed, Feb 10, 2010 at 12:14 PM, Boris Zbarsky bzbar...@mit.edu wrote: On 2/10/10 2:44 PM, Jonas Sicking wrote: ASYNC can be implemented in most browsers actually. Yes, I was pretty careful with my use of in a cross-browser manner... ;) However even if Firefox (and maybe Opera) had behaved

Re: [whatwg] video feedback

2010-02-10 Thread Silvia Pfeiffer
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 3:01 AM, Brian Campbell lam...@continuation.org wrote: On Feb 9, 2010, at 9:03 PM, Ian Hickson wrote: On Sat, 7 Nov 2009, Silvia Pfeiffer wrote: I use timeupdate to register a callback that will update captions/subtitles. That's only a temporary situation, though,

[whatwg] DOMContentLoaded and stylesheets

2010-02-10 Thread Mathias Schäfer
Hello everyone, In a JavaScript tutorial, I wanted to explain what DOMContentLoaded actually does. But the tests I made revealed that there isn't a consistent behavior across browsers with regard to stylesheets. In fact, it's a total mess. These are the results of my tests:

Re: [whatwg] DOMContentLoaded and stylesheets

2010-02-10 Thread Boris Zbarsky
On 2/10/10 6:55 PM, Mathias Schäfer wrote: In a JavaScript tutorial, I wanted to explain what DOMContentLoaded actually does. It fires once the parser has consumed the entire input stream, such that you can rely on all the parser-created DOM nodes being present. This is true in all

Re: [whatwg] should async scripts block the document's load event?

2010-02-10 Thread Jonas Sicking
On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 4:22 PM, Brian Kuhn bnk...@gmail.com wrote: No one has any thoughts on this? It seems to me that the purpose of async scripts is to get out of the way of user-visible functionality.  Many sites currently attach user-visible functionality to window.onload, so it would be

[whatwg] Parser-related feedback

2010-02-10 Thread Ian Hickson
On Thu, 29 Oct 2009, Matt Hall wrote: Prior to r4177, the matching of tag names for exiting the RCDATA/RAWTEXT states was done as follows: ...and the next few characters do no match the tag name of the last start tag token emitted (compared in an ASCII case-insensitive manner) However,

Re: [whatwg] History API, pushState(), and related feedback

2010-02-10 Thread Justin Lebar
On Thu, Jan 14, 2010, Hixie...oh dear. On Tue, 18 Aug 2009, Justin Lebar wrote: (An attempt at describing how pushstate is supposed to be used.) That's not quite how I would describe it. It's more that each entry in the session history has a URL and optionally some data. The data can be

Re: [whatwg] URN or protocol attribute

2010-02-10 Thread Brett Zamir
On 2/10/2010 3:55 PM, Martin Atkins wrote: Brett Zamir wrote: Hi, Internet Explorer has an attribute on anchor elements for URNs: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms534710%28VS.85%29.aspx This has not caught on in other browsers, though I believe it could be a very powerful feature