Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-11-07 Thread Matthew Raymond
Michel Fortin wrote: > Le 6 nov. 2006 à 7:04, Matthew Raymond a écrit : > >> Michel Fortin wrote: >> >>> This paragraph has a footnote>>> 1. >>> >>> >>>This footnote can contain block-level elements! >>> >>> >>I have a similar view, although I have some ref

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-11-06 Thread Michel Fortin
Le 6 nov. 2006 à 12:32, Sander Tekelenburg a écrit : Another thing is that whether the annotation should be considered a footnote, endnote or whateverelsenote seems to me a presentational issue, so I'm not that enthusiastic about calling it a element. Why not simply ? You can then allow th

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-11-06 Thread Michel Fortin
Le 6 nov. 2006 à 7:04, Matthew Raymond a écrit : Michel Fortin wrote: This paragraph has a footnote 1. This footnote can contain block-level elements! I have a similar view, although I have some refinements: | | This paragraph has a footnote | [

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-11-06 Thread Sander Tekelenburg
At 07:04 -0500 UTC, on 2006-11-06, Matthew Raymond wrote: [...] > | > | This paragraph has a footnote > | [1]. > | What if you want multiple footnotes in the one paragraph? This paragraph[1] has two footnotes[2]. Like that? > | [...] > | > | References: > | > | > | >

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-11-06 Thread Matthew Raymond
Michel Fortin wrote: > This paragraph has a footnote >1. > > > >This footnote can contain block-level elements! > > I have a similar view, although I have some refinements: | | This paragraph has a footnote | [1]. | | [...] | | References

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-11-05 Thread Michel Fortin
Le 5 nov. 2006 à 7:52, Elliotte Harold a écrit : Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: Scholarly books sometimes use both footnotes and endnotes for different things -- footnotes for citations and endnotes for tangential discussions, or vice versa. I've never seen an HTML document try to make this d

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-11-05 Thread Martin Atkins
Elliotte Harold wrote: Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: Scholarly books sometimes use both footnotes and endnotes for different things -- footnotes for citations and endnotes for tangential discussions, or vice versa. I've never seen an HTML document try to make this distinction, though. Distin

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-11-05 Thread Elliotte Harold
Matthew Paul Thomas wrote: Scholarly books sometimes use both footnotes and endnotes for different things -- footnotes for citations and endnotes for tangential discussions, or vice versa. I've never seen an HTML document try to make this distinction, though. Distinguishing footnotes and e

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-11-05 Thread Alexey Feldgendler
On Sat, 04 Nov 2006 19:21:42 +0600, Matthew Paul Thomas <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Footnotes and endnotes are identical in content in the context of a >> print document and I am not certain how they'd differ even >> presentationally on a web page, so yes, I think those can be >> considered ide

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-11-04 Thread Matthew Paul Thomas
On Oct 31, 2006, at 7:57 AM, Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:54:12 +0600, David Walbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: ... I would never want to require that a footnote be read to anyone, thereby interrupting the text -- it is in the nature of a footnote to be optional reading an

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-11-04 Thread Matthew Paul Thomas
On Oct 31, 2006, at 7:20 AM, David Walbert wrote: ... Footnotes and endnotes are identical in content in the context of a print document and I am not certain how they'd differ even presentationally on a web page, so yes, I think those can be considered identical in terms of markup.  ... Sch

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-11-04 Thread Sander Tekelenburg
At 17:53 +0100 UTC, on 2006-10-31, Håkon Wium Lie wrote: [...] > W3C recently published a proposal on how to achieve > footnote/endnote presentations using the same markup [1]. The proposal > is quite simple. Given this markup: > > .. > > you would achieve footnoes with: > > .note { position:

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread Michael(tm) Smith
Sander Tekelenburg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 2006-11-01 06:10 +0100: > At 20:35 -0800 UTC, on 2006-10-31, Jonathan Worent wrote: > > > I came across an article by Jesper Tverskov titled The benefits of > >footnotes in webpages. > > (http://www.smackthemouse.com/footnotes) It may be of interest. > > I

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread Lachlan Hunt
Sander Tekelenburg wrote: At 20:35 -0800 UTC, on 2006-10-31, Jonathan Worent wrote: I came across an article by Jesper Tverskov titled The benefits of footnotes in webpages. (http://www.smackthemouse.com/footnotes) It may be of interest. IMO the problems with the title attribute he lists are

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread Sander Tekelenburg
At 20:35 -0800 UTC, on 2006-10-31, Jonathan Worent wrote: > I came across an article by Jesper Tverskov titled The benefits of >footnotes in webpages. > (http://www.smackthemouse.com/footnotes) It may be of interest. IMO the problems with the title attribute he lists are in fact browser implement

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread Jonathan Worent
I came across an article by Jesper Tverskov titled The benefits of footnotes in webpages. (http://www.smackthemouse.com/footnotes) It may be of interest. Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail (http

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread Michael(tm) Smith
James Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, 2006-10-31 14:30 +: > I think and distinction between footnotes, sidenotes and endnotes is > basically presentational and whilst we should try to ensure that markup+CSS > can create all three appearances we shouldn't treat them distinctly. As a name for foo

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread Michel Fortin
Le 31 oct. 2006 à 11:53, Håkon Wium Lie a écrit : I agree. W3C recently published a proposal on how to achieve footnote/endnote presentations using the same markup [1]. The proposal is quite simple. Given this markup: .. you would achieve footnoes with: .note { position: footnote } ane e

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread Håkon Wium Lie
Also sprach Alexey Feldgendler: > > I agree. W3C recently published a proposal on how to achieve > > footnote/endnote presentations using the same markup [1]. The proposal > > is quite simple. Given this markup: > > > > .. > > > > you would achieve footnoes with: > > > > .note { posit

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread Alexey Feldgendler
On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 22:53:04 +0600, Håkon Wium Lie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I agree. W3C recently published a proposal on how to achieve footnote/endnote presentations using the same markup [1]. The proposal is quite simple. Given this markup: .. you would achieve footnoes with: .note

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread David Walbert
On Oct 31, 2006, at 10:57 AM, Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:54:12 +0600, David Walbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Does anybody know how blind users prefer footnotes to be read for them? I would never want to require that a footnote be read to anyone, thereby interrupti

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread Håkon Wium Lie
Also sprach David Walbert: > > On Oct 31, 2006, at 9:30 AM, James Graham wrote: > > > I think and distinction between footnotes, sidenotes and endnotes > > is basically presentational and whilst we should try to ensure that > > markup+CSS can create all three appearances we shouldn't tr

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread David Walbert
On Oct 31, 2006, at 10:40 AM, Alexey Feldgendler wrote:Does anybody know how blind users prefer footnotes to be read for them? I would never want to require that a footnote be read to anyone, thereby interrupting the text -- it is in the nature of a footnote to be optional reading and to stand apar

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread Alexey Feldgendler
On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:54:12 +0600, David Walbert <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Does anybody know how blind users prefer footnotes to be read for >> them? > I would never want to require that a footnote be read to anyone, > thereby interrupting the text -- it is in the nature of a footnote to > b

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread Alexey Feldgendler
On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 21:16:36 +0600, James Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Which won't work in the absence of CSS or javascript - not unprecedented in > the spec but surely a disadvantage. How well will this markup work in an > existing screenreader? It's a separate question how should screenr

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread Alexey Feldgendler
On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 20:30:44 +0600, James Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Some text this is a sidenote to put >>in the margin and some other text. > This seems to have a poor backward compatibility story - in a non-supporting > UA the note ends up in the flow. It can be styled t

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread David Walbert
On Oct 31, 2006, at 9:30 AM, James Graham wrote:I think and distinction between footnotes, sidenotes and endnotes is basically presentational and whilst we should try to ensure that markup+CSS can create all three appearances we shouldn't treat them distinctly. Footnotes and endnotes are identical

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread James Graham
Alexey Feldgendler wrote: On Tue, 31 Oct 2006 20:30:44 +0600, James Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Some text this is a sidenote to put in the margin and some other text. This seems to have a poor backward compatibility story - in a non-supporting UA the note ends up in the flow

Re: [whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread James Graham
Michel Fortin wrote: Le 30 oct. 2006 à 15:33, Ian Hickson a écrit : One thing to consider when looking at footnotes is "would the title="" attribute handle this use case as well as what I'm proposing?". If the answer is "yes", or "almost", then it's probably not a good idea to introduce the

[whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread Lachlan Hunt
Ian Hickson wrote: * note and reference for footnotes, endnotes, and sidenotes (not aside in “HTML5”) If anyone has any ideas on this, please post them to the list. (The CSS group is also looking at footnotes closely.) It would useful to look at previous work and discussion on this issue.

[whatwg] Footnotes, endnotes, sidenotes

2006-10-31 Thread Michel Fortin
Le 30 oct. 2006 à 15:33, Ian Hickson a écrit : * note and reference for footnotes, endnotes, and sidenotes (not aside in “HTML5”) Yes, this is an area where document and converter authors currently need to come up with their own class-based hacks. Ideally a continuous media user agent