Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-10-18 Thread Fred Andrews
Hi Ian, Thank you for taking the time to follow up. Some of my comments do seem a little immature in hindsight and I tend to agree now that adding a lot of these suggestions to the HTML spec. would make little difference. I am exploring options to reduce the potential for UA state leaks bu

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-10-18 Thread Ian Hickson
On Wed, 29 Aug 2012, Fred Andrews wrote: > From: i...@hixie.ch > > On Fri, 8 Jun 2012, Mark Callow wrote: > > > On 08/06/2012 06:09, Ian Hickson wrote: > > > > The dire warning doesn't work. I'm just saying that's the > > > > direction that operating system vendors have been going in; that > > >

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-08-29 Thread Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 2:04 AM, Fred Andrews wrote: > > >> From: bhawkesle...@googlemail.com >> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 21:25:07 +0100 > ... > >> >> > For example a lot could be done with data-flow computations. >> >> >> >> Are you talking about something like the "calculate" property from >> >> X

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-08-29 Thread Fred Andrews
> From: bhawkesle...@googlemail.com > Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 21:25:07 +0100 ... > >> > For example a lot could be done with data-flow computations. > >> > >> Are you talking about something like the "calculate" property from XForms? > > > > Something that could handle simple event processing such

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-08-29 Thread Fred Andrews
> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 10:52:05 -0400 > From: bzbar...@mit.edu ... > On 8/29/12 10:15 AM, Fred Andrews wrote: > > Yes, but fluid layout could use some calculations and is it likely that > > declarative calculations would ever be added to CSS? > > You mean other than http://dev.w3.org/csswg/cs

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-08-29 Thread Mark Callow
On 12/08/28 14:41, Ian Hickson wrote: > On Fri, 8 Jun 2012, Mark Callow wrote: >> On 08/06/2012 06:09, Ian Hickson wrote: >>> The dire warning doesn't work. I'm just saying that's the direction >>> that operating system vendors have been going in; that disallowing it >>> in the browser case is no

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-08-29 Thread Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 3:15 PM, Fred Andrews wrote: > Perhaps this is not a problem that can be solved, and perhaps privacy and > safety will need to be addressed in other ways rather than hacking on the > document Javascript. I suspect so. >> > For example a lot could be done with data-flow co

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-08-29 Thread Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 3:52 PM, Boris Zbarsky wrote: > On 8/29/12 10:15 AM, Fred Andrews wrote: >> >> Yes, but fluid layout could use some calculations and is it likely that >> declarative calculations would ever be added to CSS? > > > You mean other than http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-values/#calc

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-08-29 Thread Boris Zbarsky
On 8/29/12 10:15 AM, Fred Andrews wrote: Yes, but fluid layout could use some calculations and is it likely that declarative calculations would ever be added to CSS? You mean other than http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css3-values/#calc ? -Boris

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-08-29 Thread Fred Andrews
> From: bhawkesle...@googlemail.com > Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2012 08:34:47 +0100 ... > > Javascript is just too general a programming language for easy management > > and is heading in the direction of Java. > > I'm not sure how far the problem is Javascript, rather than the > browser and document o

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-08-29 Thread Benjamin Hawkes-Lewis
On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 3:39 AM, Fred Andrews wrote: > We should also consider new computation approaches for use within web content > that gives the users better control. I think getting new features along these lines into user agents is more effective than adding informative notes to specs. ;)

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-08-28 Thread Fred Andrews
> Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2012 21:41:02 + > From: i...@hixie.ch > To: callow_m...@hicorp.co.jp > CC: wha...@whatwg.org > Subject: Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers? > > On Fri, 8 Jun 2012, Mark Callow wrote: > > On 08/06/2012 06:09, I

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-08-28 Thread Ian Hickson
On Fri, 8 Jun 2012, Mark Callow wrote: > On 08/06/2012 06:09, Ian Hickson wrote: > > The dire warning doesn't work. I'm just saying that's the direction > > that operating system vendors have been going in; that disallowing it > > in the browser case is not a different direction, it's consistent

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-07-27 Thread Nils Dagsson Moskopp
Fred Andrews schrieb am Fri, 27 Jul 2012 13:52:28 +: > […] > I wish this were the case, however it does appear that websites, > are trying to control the platform. They do this via their terms > of use and by twisting laws to suit them. There was a recent case > in which Google took down a

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-07-27 Thread Fred Andrews
On Tue, 19 Jun 2012 11:56:04 +0200, Chaals McCathieNevile wrote: > On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 05:05:11 +0200, Mark Callow > wrote: > >> On 08/06/2012 06:09, Ian Hickson wrote: >>> The dire warning doesn't work. I'm just saying that's the direction that >>> operating system vendors have been going

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-06-25 Thread Mark Callow
On 19/06/2012 18:56, Chaals McCathieNevile wrote: > >> In both cases it is an existential threat to freedom and civil >> liberties. > > I think that is overstating the case. A *lot*. It is not. This is not the venue to discuss this so I will not reply on this list to any further messages but as t

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-06-19 Thread Chaals McCathieNevile
On Fri, 08 Jun 2012 05:05:11 +0200, Mark Callow wrote: On 08/06/2012 06:09, Ian Hickson wrote: The dire warning doesn't work. I'm just saying that's the direction that operating system vendors have been going in; that disallowing it in the browser case is not a different direction, it's consis

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-06-07 Thread Mark Callow
On 08/06/2012 06:09, Ian Hickson wrote: > The dire warning doesn't work. I'm just saying that's the direction that > operating system vendors have been going in; that disallowing it in the > browser case is not a different direction, it's consistent with the > industry's direction as a whole. The

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-06-07 Thread Ian Hickson
On Wed, 1 Feb 2012, Bronislav Klu�~Mka wrote: > On 1.2.2012 1:36, Ian Hickson wrote: > > > > > > I am not interested in the argument that "It is just too dangerous". > > > Browsers already allow people to download executables with a couple > > > clicks, not to mention install privileged browser

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-02-01 Thread Bjartur Thorlacius
On Wed, 01 Feb 2012 05:00:04 -, Brett Zamir wrote: It would let anyone with web skills to have full creative control over the browser UI which they can in turn easily share with others regardless of the host browser those people are using, and without the hassle of building and packagin

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-01-31 Thread Bronislav Klučka
On 1.2.2012 5:14, Ryosuke Niwa wrote: 2012/1/31 Bronislav Klučka > On 1.2.2012 1:36, Ian Hickson wrote: I am not interested in the argument that "It is just too dangerous". Browsers already allow people to download

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-01-31 Thread Brett Zamir
On 2/1/2012 8:36 AM, Ian Hickson wrote: On Sat, 17 Dec 2011, Brett Zamir wrote: What is the reason you won't let us make our own browsers-in-a-browser? What is the use case for browser-in-a-browser? If you have a browser... then you have a browser. Why would you want to run another one inside

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-01-31 Thread Bronislav Klučka
On 1.2.2012 5:19, Nils Dagsson Moskopp wrote: I understand the need for protecting users... fine by me, but by limiting developers? The fact, that people are giving permission to operation they do not care to find information about to some program/site they know nothing about... Well it's their

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-01-31 Thread Nils Dagsson Moskopp
Bronislav Klučka schrieb am Wed, 01 Feb 2012 04:19:24 +0100: > […] > I understand the need for protecting users... fine by me, but by > limiting developers? > The fact, that people are giving permission to operation they do not > care to find information about to some program/site > they know

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-01-31 Thread Ryosuke Niwa
2012/1/31 Bronislav Klučka > > On 1.2.2012 1:36, Ian Hickson wrote: > >> >> I am not interested in the argument that "It is just too dangerous". >>> Browsers already allow people to download executables with a couple >>> clicks, not to mention install privileged browser add-ons. Enough said. >>>

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-01-31 Thread Bronislav Klučka
On 1.2.2012 1:36, Ian Hickson wrote: I am not interested in the argument that "It is just too dangerous". Browsers already allow people to download executables with a couple clicks, not to mention install privileged browser add-ons. Enough said. Well, in all fairness, browsers and operating

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2012-01-31 Thread Ian Hickson
On Sat, 17 Dec 2011, Brett Zamir wrote: > > What is the reason you won't let us make our own browsers-in-a-browser? What is the use case for browser-in-a-browser? If you have a browser... then you have a browser. Why would you want to run another one inside your browser? > I'm not talking abou

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2011-12-17 Thread Brett Zamir
On 12/17/2011 3:27 PM, Andreas Gal wrote: We are working on an API to allow implementing a web browser as an HTML5 application. It is going to take quite a while to get the API and security model right, but we are definitely interested in the topic. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2011-12-16 Thread Andreas Gal
We are working on an API to allow implementing a web browser as an HTML5 application. It is going to take quite a while to get the API and security model right, but we are definitely interested in the topic. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=693515 Best regards, Andreas On Dec 16,

Re: [whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2011-12-16 Thread Adam Barth
It sounds like you might be interested in Chromeless: http://mozillalabs.com/chromeless If you'd like to see this kind of future, consider contributing to that effort. Adam On Fri, Dec 16, 2011 at 11:16 PM, Brett Zamir wrote: > What is the reason you won't let us make our own browsers-in-a-br

[whatwg] Why won't you let us make our own HTML5 browsers?

2011-12-16 Thread Brett Zamir
What is the reason you won't let us make our own browsers-in-a-browser? I'm not talking about some module you have to build yourself in order to distribute a browser as an executable. I'm talking about visiting a (secure/signed?) page on the web and being asked permission to give it any or all