l. But the treatment a
first-time editor gets depends on who they encounter, what they edit
and how good they are at adapting to the standards they encounter.
What everyone can do is try and take the time to encourage new editors
and not treat people as if they should know what to do (or
ly unrelated articles appearing in "what links here"
because those articles appear somewhere in some broad topic template
that's been stuck on the bottom of 50 or so articles. Really annoying
- categories was (is!) meant to avoid that.
Carcharoth
he article, or
copied from some official website).
Historical stuff is less certain:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_I_of_England#Children
The strange thing is, we have an *article* on the 4-month-old, but not
the 2-year old:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Stuart,_Duke_of_Kin
d_saints
Compare:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fausta_of_Sirmium
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agnes_of_Rome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexei_Nikolaevich,_Tsarevich_of_Russia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laura_Vicuna
And how would you cover the story given in this article?
http://en.wikiped
nology: notability relates to
> topics. There is a separate notion of salience, for facts. Articles
> should consist of salient facts on a notable topic.
WP:SALIENCY? :-)
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On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 12:50 PM, Charles Matthews
wrote:
> Carcharoth wrote:
>> On Sun, Feb 22, 2009 at 4:24 PM, Charles Matthews
>> wrote:
>>> And another thing - I'd resist this in all cases where there was a place
>>> for a person in a line of
dane tasks. Some people go and take a walk, others play sport, or
clean the house, or sleep, while some edit Wikipedia. :-)
The closest I can find is:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memory_consolidation
Though this category has some interesting stuff:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Memory_p
hinking of?
This page might help as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Search_engine_indexing
Carcharoth
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On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Anthony wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 3:15 AM, Ray Saintonge wrote
>
>> > 2009/2/23 Carcharoth :
>> >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ben_Bowen
>> It's a great example of maudlinism run rampant. Why this 2-year old,
ome level of incivility. How do you
know when the levels are acceptable once again? When more articles are
being written? My theory is that the articles still get written, just
slower, and some article writers are lost for good (or never arrive).
Carchar
On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 6:07 PM, Marc Riddell
wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:29 PM, Marc Riddell
>> wrote:
>>> Civility, like courtesy, is contagious - it begins with you.
>
> on 2/26/09 8:48 AM, Carcharoth at carcharot...@googlemail.com wrote:
>>
&g
then too much slips through. Even if people
agree on where the central point should be, what should be done when
people disagree on how broad the fairway should be?
Carcharoth
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large. Many of those
have sub-infoboxes, so maybe too much is being put in the main country
infoboxes?
Here we go:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States
The weather articles are similarly stats- and table-heavy.
I'm sure they are useful, but do people really use t
a, a table showing the distances of the
planets from the Sun. It seems to be here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Solar_System_objects_in_hydrostatic_equilibrium
Incidentally, the Earth-Moon distance is in the first sentence of Moon:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wi
drivers,
> prompted by Homer's advice, pull up the Wikipedia page in their own
> Internet-enabled cars, and realize they've been driving wrong all
> their lives, and all switch to the opposite side.
Sounds eerily prescient.
Carcharoth
_
n
> *online* reference. Suggestion: searching for all articles with
> "{{fact" in them and sending 50,000 volts through the chair of
> anyone who tagged a reference on mere paper.
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r hours).,
Returning to an issue weeks later when the book has arrived and when
it has dropped off people's watchlists (if they keep them tidy) can
have its advantages, though. Unless the article got deleted, of
course.
Carcharoth
__
ook itself, that taks
defeated me. But it is a task that both needs doing and there needs to
be a way to record that x number of people have checked any particular
reference and agreed with it, regardless of whether it is offline or
online.
Carcharoth
eed to
> keep one's face only two inches from the desired text. :-)
"But Sir, if you need to look that closely to read the text, why don't
you take your sunglasses off?"
All you need now is the pen with the memory wipe flash thingy.
hey have, send
them some more, or get some of the GFDL ones out there.
It might also be the expression on Jimmy's face and the hand gesture.
Very Confucian.
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KH, EGYPT- MAY 20: Jimmy Wales, founder and chair
emritus of Wikia, USA, looks on during the closing session of the
World Economic Forum on the Middle East..."
[Have they confused Wikipedia and Wikia?]
And he's in profile, holding a pen.
Of course, it's easier to reuse the picture
On Barack Obama, the succession boxes are inside a footer template!
Barack Obama:
8 succession boxes
16 footer templates
46 categories
I'm sure there is record somewhere for the most categories on an article.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MostCategories
T
ed on the article correcting a couple of
>> mistakes/misleading statements. Otherwise it is a very good article
>> and accurately describes some of the problems we face without being
>> sensationalistic.
>
> And they've fixed them within about 20 minutes - good
four digit number to the article that looks like a year
- not just the current year, though special focus should be on those
edits).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euphemism#Euphemisms_for_death
"...dysphemisms such as worm food, or dead meat..."
Only on Wikipedia would you f
nce of the below, although I
>> do grasp the single words...
>
> I'm in a similar position - I think this should be on the talk page
> where people that have the faintest idea what "jenetiks" is might be
> around.
It appe
ack into a redirect), or people agreeing
that something separate is needed to address the complexities of such
matters.
Carcharoth
On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 1:31 AM, Durova wrote:
> That becomes a bit difficult without naming individuals who may not
> subscribe to this list. There have been
their heads, saying that your leaves were too crumpled or too slimy or
too common, throwing them to the side. And that was too bad. The
people who guarded the leaf pile this way were called "deletionists".
But that came later. First it was just fun. "
Rather a nice analogy,
d.” '
>>
>
> I think Joseph Reagle discusses this (along with a number of other
> precursors I hadn't been aware of) in his dissertation.
Do you have details or links to this Reagle dissertation?
Carcharoth
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there
are other ways of saying that' (unstated comment), but I decided not
to.
But as long as the context makes clear what is happening, it should be OK.
In a similar way, some really strange literature uses this as a device
to messes with readers' minds, leaving them confused as to
s and
Victorians from *somewhere*. Maybe it was a form of osmosis from
popular culture and museums and references in other books and from TV?
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On Thu, Mar 26, 2009 at 5:55 AM, Carcharoth wrote:
> The strange thing is, I picked up knowledge about the Romans and
> Victorians from *somewhere*. Maybe it was a form of osmosis from
> popular culture and museums and references in other books and from TV?
Doh! I studied L
re teaching us".
i.e. Hopefully this hypothetical kid would credit the source behind
Wikipedia, and credit Wikipedia only in-so-far as it provided an entry
point into reading about the topic.
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On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 12:36 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> 2009/3/28 doc :
>> Carcharoth wrote:
>>> Presumably, they would actually go: "but sir, I read the Wikipedia
>>> article, and while checking the sources provided there, I did some
>>> backgro
[Correcting previous post - can't Wikipedia have editable posts?]
On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Carcharoth
wrote:
> On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Charlotte Webb
> wrote:
>> On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 1:37 PM, Ray Saintonge wrote:
>>> Nationalism is a major facto
dbook, Martin Luther King's FBI fan-mail, Jonestown, or
> the Tuskegee Study, etc. Indeed, who would?
Does that make the "board of education" part of the problem?
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On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 1:32 PM, doc wrote:
> Carcharoth wrote:
>> [Correcting previous post - can't Wikipedia have editable posts?]
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Carcharoth
>> wrote:
>>> On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 12:48 PM, Charlotte Webb
>>
roposal I made:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Biographies_of_living_persons/Archive_20#Workflow_and_project_management_proposal
Carcharoth
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til well after it was open. Was there
a watchlist notice?
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On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 11:32 PM, Carcharoth
wrote:
> On Sun, Mar 29, 2009 at 11:29 PM, Alex Sawczynec
> wrote:
>> With all due respect, this isn't exactly "new": it's been open for almost
>> two weeks now. Is there a particular reason it's being
o develop future technology
solutions"
So they might try making a comeback in another form?
I liked Encarta - it was the first real encyclopedia I used. So I feel
a bit torn here.
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Absolutely. And the model that replaces Wikipedia will also needs
critics as well.
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:45 PM, doc wrote:
> You realise, someday the announcement will read:
>
> "Wikipedia has been a popular product around the world for many years.
> However, the category of traditional wiki
Turtles all the way up (or is that down?)
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:04 AM, Scientia Potentia est
wrote:
> Ad infinitum...you have to love it.
>
> bibliomaniac15
>
> --- On Mon, 3/30/09, doc wrote:
> From: doc
> Subject: Re: [WikiEN-l] Microsoft kills Encarta
> To: "English Wikipedia"
> Date:
urces by software.
Hmm. Can you get $$$ from that?
Some Wikipedia mirrors seem to be trying to do this already.
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On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:22 AM, Carcharoth
wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:15 AM, geni wrote:
>> In fact if I had to put a guess on what will replace wikipedia is will
>> be made to order articles generated on the fly from a wide range of
>> sources by software.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Slakr/TPE
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:50 AM, wrote:
> Kill the messenger!
> Does anyone have a mob of peasants with torches standing around handy?
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Brion Vibber
> To: Wikimedia developers ; English
> Wikipedia
> Sent: Mon
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Riots
On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 1:01 AM, Carcharoth wrote:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Slakr/TPE
>
> On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 12:50 AM, wrote:
>> Kill the messenger!
>> Does anyone have a mob of peasants with torches
protect the knowledge it
> had already acquired.
I thought it got ransacked?
Goodness, they aren't even sure when or how it was destroyed!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Alexandria#Destruction_of_the_Library
Carcharoth
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On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 3:02 PM, Nathan wrote:
> On Tue, Mar 31, 2009 at 4:45 AM, Carcharoth
> wrote:
>> Agreed. Though is it annoying when you see people working on things to
>> address this, and then see critics, who inspired some people, carry on
>> criticising the me
you have to have
things set up so the human can take a break and recharge itself. Less
long sessions editing Wikipedia, and more targeted editing, adding
more value-per-click (ugh, I can't believe I just said that).
Carcharoth
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eding a separate article.
A good example is the distinction between name pages and dab pages.
A really good historical dab page of different people in history with
the same name can turn into an article on the name itself. Its
etymology and history. Ditto
r=117
Hopefully it can be tweaked to distinguish between removal and
replacement with a death category. And then people can check edits
made claiming someone has died, and make sure reliable sources have
been provided for such claims.
Carcharoth
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t had been happening.
Carcharoth
On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 11:54 AM, wrote:
> I did not suggest doc that "anyone can review".
> Review what I said again.
> I said that established users can review, that it should be an
> automatic right at a certain point and that admins
On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 11:24 AM, Sam Korn wrote:
> On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 11:16 AM, Carcharoth
> wrote:
>> Hopefully it can be tweaked to distinguish between removal and
>> replacement with a death category. And then people can check edits
>> made claiming someone
i'm wondering whether the above is the expected way of
> accessing the current events in Wikipedia? Or is there a more elegant
> solution for the same task?
Dunno, but your post ended up in my spam filter for some reason. FYI
in case it helps and in case others also had the same problem
imes, if that person steps back and considers things with that
mention of common sense in mind, they will be persuaded.
I see appeals to common sense as a way to jolt people out of
rules-lawyering. But sometimes in a more successful way than saying
something like "Ignore all rules".
Carchar
;
Article is interesting as well:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledge_market
Carcharoth
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ar date categories ("establishment
year") and location categories and "type" categories. There *are*
broad logical groupings of categories, but how to incorporate that
into layout and the category structure has never really taken hold or
been possible.
The closest I saw was
S generated content to achieve
> personalized presentations, reduces the number of elments from 14 to 5
> and the code size from 798 to 248 bytes.
Have you sent this to the people who work on geocoding on Wikipedia?
Carcharoth
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On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 10:50 PM, Carcharoth wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 10:25 PM, Håkon Wium Lie wrote:
>> I've analyzed Wikipedia's HTML code for representing geographical
>> coordinates. The current code is verbose and does not support the Geo
>> microforma
On Mon, Apr 6, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Håkon Wium Lie wrote:
> Any other suggestions?
No. Those places look right.
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ht
On Thu, Apr 9, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Bill Carter wrote:
> Alan Cabal's name was just struck once again from the New York Press article.
It has been delinked, not removed:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=New_York_Press&diff=282741269&oldid=28272
der%27s_syndrome
You clearly meant the latter, but both articles are fascinating.
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ium:
http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Wikipedia
http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Citizendium
It's quite interesting reading those four articles and comparing them.
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7;ve been
> practising for years.
I noticed it on the CENT template on someone else's talk page.
Which reminds me, I should put the CENT template on my user page.
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such discussions. At a minimum, a new post at some
noticeboard saying "discussion has ended, we need someone uninvolved
to close it" would work.
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eplies (unlikely) or various
tricks are used to ensure archiving doesn't take place until the poll
is over (or for a set period like 3 or 4 days).
Even widespread advertising won't always work. See comments made here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee/CheckUser_and_Oversight_elections/February_2009&diff=268381574&oldid=268380838
Anyway, my proposed process guideline is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Advertising_discussions
I guess I should now try and work out where to advertise it for approval...
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On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 11:19 AM, David Gerard wrote:
> 2009/4/11 Al Tally :
>> On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 2:05 AM, Ron Ritzman wrote:
>
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Articles_for_deletion#Proposal_to_change_the_length_of_deletion_discussions_to_7_days
>
>> I wonder when the plan t
iated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Advertising_discussions
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On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 11:36 AM, Carcharoth
wrote:
> Please see [[Wikipedia:Advertising discussions]], a proposal I've made
> to formalise guidelines on where and how the largest discussions
> should be advertised around Wikipedia to ensure sufficient input to
> major discussi
gt;> Are you sure? I checked back to 2004ish, back when we were still using
>> a single discussion page, and I'm sure it seemed to be about five
>> then.
Did that include VfD?
> Possibly my history file has been corrupted.
Or you
On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 3:35 PM, Ron Ritzman wrote:
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2009 at 6:09 AM, Carcharoth
> wrote:
>
>> Incidentally, one of the downsides of notifications posted at AN and
>> ANI is that they are only there until the bots archive them (that's
>> on
> wholly unedifying attack on Larry, Citizendium or anyone else.
Seconded. And that's my last post to this thread.
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On Mon, Apr 13, 2009 at 11:04 PM, wrote:
> There's a way to tell the order in which people joined Wikipedia?
> What is it?
Possibly [[Special:Preferences]], and your user ID.
My user ID is between 165,000 and 166,000.
And I created my account on 8 January 2005.
I used Google Translate. I would post the entire translation here, but
not sure if that is OK or not, so I'm only posting the translation of
the first sentence.
"Have you thought about Wiki design a specific work of polishing
modules-tickets?"
Looks like a poor translation anyw
it make a difference if the author of the PD text is long
dead and the text is PD "by age" or if the author is alive and the
text has been released as PD by the author's employer, or if the
author himself released it as a PD text?
Or to put it another
On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 2:46 AM, wrote:
> Carcharoth wrote:
>> Interestingly, this feeds into a current discussion going on about the
>> use of PD text. The discussion (which may have got a little out of
>> hand, is on the talk page of the Signpost's article about pl
new Windows.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Globster
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Globsters
> And sole ownership of Norway.
Ooh. Stakes too high. I fold.
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On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 5:23 PM, FT2 wrote:
> Eek! A potentially better search engine! (Can I buy stock in Carcharoth? :) )
Vegetable stock or chicken stock?
Carcharoth (feeling peckish)
[In all seriousness, disambiguation pages are a good way to find
obscure top
up_2008%E2%80%9309#Semi-finals
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Champions_League_2008%E2%80%9309#Semi-finals
I believe you can e-mail them to correct stuff, but really, why bother.
"Page last updated at 14:13 GMT, Monday, 20 April 2009 15:13 UK" -
let's see how many people from the BBC read this
On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 1:46 PM, Apoc 2400 wrote:
> It seems the moderator ate the text of my message.
It got through to me first time.
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t until there
is a page at the WMF wiki to link to?
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ou put kennels on the yacht. And an aviary and some water tanks?
We have a rather large menagerie we need to house:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Radiant!/Classification_of_admins
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On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 5:36 PM, David Gerard wrote:
> 2009/4/20 Carcharoth :
>
>> Recently, I've wanted the ability to edit the BBC webpages.
>
> Considering they've fired almost all the subs, they could probably do
> with, how you say, "crowdsourcing"
creased in size since creation):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states
If you look at the bottom of this list:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_outlying_territories_by_total_area
Even the smallest countries and territories have impressively
On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Sam Korn wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Carcharoth
> wrote:
>> To be fair, I don't know how long it took Wikipedia to have an article
>> for every country in the world - that would be an interesting question
>> for someon
On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 6:50 PM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
> 2009/4/22 Thomas Dalton :
>> 2009/4/22 Carcharoth :
>>> So it looks like all that low-hanging fruit went by 2002, with the
>>> outliers by 2004.
>>
>> Some of those outliers aren't universally
On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 6:53 PM, Carcharoth wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 6:50 PM, Thomas Dalton
> wrote:
>> 2009/4/22 Thomas Dalton :
>>> 2009/4/22 Carcharoth :
>>>> So it looks like all that low-hanging fruit went by 2002, with the
>>>> out
just elevating process
> above people.
And when you get two people contacting you, both claiming to be the same person?
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On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Carcharoth wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 6:52 PM, Ken Arromdee wrote:
>> On Wed, 22 Apr 2009 wjhon...@aol.com wrote:
>>>If they are not willing to type two sentences on an official
>>>site, but ARE willing to type a hundred in-
ng of the article, or other, less drastic surgery, is needed
until talk page discussions and possible off-wiki conformation of
subject identity has taken place.
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a correction of cited
> and otherwise verified information as stated by the subject, and 3/ this
> does not override NPOV or the requirement to avoid undue weight, advocacy or
> use as a battleground."
You still need a way for later editors to verify things. OTRS ticket?
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up and that would shed light on a
difference of *seven* years between the two proposed birth years (1885
and 1892). It's normally only one or two years difference between
disputed birth years.
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a.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Use_of_primary_sources_in_Wikipedia
Marked historical. Though I see I was on that talk page 2.5 years ago.
I must have had a vague memory of that page. Current policy is here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research#Primary.2C_secondary_and_tertiary_sources
Carcharoth
On Thu, Apr 23,
d, is that sufficient?
Or should what you've done there be published and then referenced?
Of course, the sources claiming the birth year as 1892 shouldn't be
removed entirely. Just in case and to stop people changing it when
they see a discrepancy.
Carcharoth
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 11
The other question to ask is why the other sources came up with 1892?
Until you find that out, there is a nagging doubt. Did they find a
different Doran, did they transcribe something incorrectly, or what?
Carcharoth
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 11:15 AM, Carcharoth
wrote:
> Great work!
>
>
the name of his grandparents, for example, you increase
the risk of error (as someone who does geneaological research, you
know that already).
So how do you minimise the risk of errors in source-based research?
Carcharoth
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 11:18 AM, wrote:
>
> In a message dated 4/23/20
ub bio and
a link to a list of his holdings would have been sufficient for me,
but the way it has been done is OK as well.
Carcharoth
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y one way of writing articles about people.
There was a template to do biography-by-the-numbers, but it might have
got deleted. Several WikiProjects do have "fill in the blanks" article
templates. They tend to do more harm than good, IMO.
Carcharoth
__
tile manufacture."
Ditto for Failsworth: "Historically a part of Lancashire, until the
19th century Failsworth was a small agricultural township linked,
ecclesiastically, with the parish of Manchester."
OK, this *is* off-topic now.
Carcharoth
_
On Thu, Apr 23, 2009 at 11:47 AM, Carcharoth
wrote:
> For the record, they are a long way apart. Lancashire (House of
> Lancaster - War of the Roses and all that) is in the North-East.
Er, North-West. Stupid edit button doesn't work on this m
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