If they would have wanted some contact, that would have done it long
time agoMore than that, if they'd like to have Windows API support
on Linux, they could have done it (and still could do) much easier,
than it's done now at Wine. (Like they did with Frontpage for Apache).
But it could
year, and stick everyone who can't/won't provide financial information at
the end, alphabetically. This wouldn't obligate anyone to pay anything,
of course, but it would seperate the serious *commercial* support
(companies or individuals who pay atention to their own financial
statements) from
On Tue, 10 May 2005 11:02, StartCom Ltd. wrote:
Or maybe just because of it, there is a need for commercial support, or
somebody might need that support. If it would be running, by just
clicking on the executable, no support is really needed, at least not
for standard applications.
IBM does
IBM does very well know the existents of Wine (they even acknowledged
that by themselves lately), but may very well not support it, because of
inter-relation with MS. As of now (just a guess), they don't want to get
into more hot water right now
Would it be to the advantage of Microsoft to
On 5/10/05, Shachar Shemesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
And on the out come of this discussion, read the entirety of this
thread and apply bays theorem and a result will soon follow.
http://psych.rice.edu/online_stat/chapter5/probability.html
While it's very nice of you to send me to a 10
StartCom Ltd. wrote:
If they would have wanted some contact, that would have done it long
time agoMore than that, if they'd like to have Windows API support
on Linux, they could have done it (and still could do) much easier, than
it's done now at Wine. (Like they did with Frontpage for
I wonder if it isn't a little early to consider the entire issue of
commercial support. Most programs do not run under Wine without some
sort of setup and things written to XP standards don't run at all. The
project hasn't gotten to the 1.0 level yet. The project is coming along
very well
I wouldn't worry about anyone but Microsoft stealing Wine. In order to
develop Wine you must be an expert C++ programmer. That requires an
enormous amount of work and thieves are usually lazy.
A new teacher came to the master. I have developed some new techniques
that make teaching much
Hi,
On Mon, May 09, 2005 at 07:19:31AM -0400, gslink wrote:
I wouldn't worry about anyone but Microsoft stealing Wine. In order to
develop Wine you must be an expert C++ programmer. That requires an
enormous amount of work and thieves are usually lazy.
Maybe you wouldn't worry, but I'd bet
gslink schreef:
I wonder if it isn't a little early to consider the entire issue of
commercial support. Most programs do not run under Wine without some
sort of setup and things written to XP standards don't run at all.
Not (really) to butt in here, especially since I have never used XP
Andreas Mohr wrote:
Hi,
On Mon, May 09, 2005 at 07:19:31AM -0400, gslink wrote:
I wouldn't worry about anyone but Microsoft stealing Wine. In order to
develop Wine you must be an expert C++ programmer. That requires an
enormous amount of work and thieves are usually lazy.
Maybe you wouldn't
I recently took the list of applications from headquarters that are
listed as running properly and found that many of these are available
for little cost. I bought a few and tried to run them. Not a one ran
as is from the box. I was able to get all of them to run with some
trouble. One big
On 5/9/05, gslink [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I recently took the list of applications from headquarters that are
listed as running properly and found that many of these are available
for little cost. I bought a few and tried to run them. Not a one ran
as is from the box. I was able to get all
Office doesn't run without setup
and neither do many of the older games such as Alice or Rune. Even
things like Warcraft come and go. This is not a criticism it is just
the way things are and that is why I think it is too early to start
thinking about commercial support.
What somebody needs to do
On Monday 09 May 2005 16:11, you wrote:
Paul van Schayck wrote:
Where would this list be? As of now there is no list of applications
we try to keep working with every released snapshot. [...]
Go to the Wine HQ site and click on applications database.
I think Paul wanted to know the subset
On 5/7/05, Shachar Shemesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is actually a very good point in favor of not charging money at
all. If you charge money, you create obligation. That's the way the
legal system works. If you do not, you can easily delist any known LGPL
offender.
It could be looked
Paul Millar wrote:
On Monday 09 May 2005 16:11, you wrote:
Paul van Schayck wrote:
Where would this list be? As of now there is no list of applications
we try to keep working with every released snapshot. [...]
Go to the Wine HQ site and click on applications database.
I think Paul wanted to
Or maybe just because of it, there is a need for commercial support,
or
somebody might need that support. If it would be running, by just
clicking on the executable, no support is really needed, at least not
for standard applications.
IBM does very well know the existents of Wine (they even
is doing sort of ok without this, and
that wine at large is doing ok without the WPF. Having published
commercial support is important for wine to do better, which is the real
goal here. Not WPF.
I think we should explore ways to raise money
for future Wineconf's and other worth while expenditures
On 5/7/05, Shachar Shemesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I really suggest we adhere to KISS - Keep It Simple.
On Sat, 7 May 2005 22:17, Tom Wickline wrote:
And have nothing in place if a rouge company fails to adhear to the
LGPL!!!
Actually, rouge companies quite like the LGPL because it
Tom Wickline wrote:
On 5/3/05, Dimitrie O. Paun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yes, I think being inclusive is better.
However, I also think that we need to pick the rules carefully so we don't
set up a bad precedent when half the world will be using Wine :). So here
is what I propose:
1. The list
On Samstag 07 Mai 2005 08:39, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
I really suggest we adhere to KISS - Keep It Simple. I actually liked
the hackers rating idea. If a company is well known among the wine
hackers, they'll vote for it. If not, list it alphabetically at the end
of the former list.
While I
On 5/7/05, Shachar Shemesh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Before going into elaborate schemes here, I suggest that everyone
consider the following points:
1. Sure, commercial companies have something to gain from being listed
on the WineHQ page, but so does Wine.
So this is a mute point.
2. If I,
9 million hits a month != visits
509874 visits !=
http://www.winehq.org/site/support pages visits (as a fact, it isn't
even listed under the top 30, not surprising)
~ 2000 pages visits != referrers
referrers != sales..
But of course, $ 100 per year is a nice price, but than everybody
On 5/7/05, Tom Wickline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The Wine Party Fund is listed as a non-profit charity in the state
of Minnesota
When did this happen? I'm pretty sure it's not unless it some how
happened over the past few months. We've discussed it before, but
always decided the amount of
On 5/7/05, MediaHost (TM) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
9 million hits a month != visits
509874 visits != http://www.winehq.org/site/support pages
visits (as a fact, it isn't even listed under the top 30, not surprising)
There is no link to this support page from our main page, and im sure
On 5/7/05, Brian Vincent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
When did this happen?
I thought Jer set it up when he set up the pay-pal account, I guess not, my bad.
We're a free software development community and that implies some level of
trust.
I can only think of the quote that's accredited to
Tom Wickline wrote:
On 5/7/05, Brian Vincent [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
When did this happen?
I thought Jer set it up when he set up the pay-pal account, I guess not, my bad.
I registered 'The Wine Project' as a 'Doing Business As'
name. Basically, this means that I have a legal right to
also
Tom Wickline wrote:
At any rate you didn't answer the question of what will happen if wine
is ever hijacked. But I guess it could happen even without this
referral page, if it does ever happen lets just hope its not by
someone listed here.
This is actually a very good point in favor of not
a discussion before
it goes into flaming mode. So if I offended you, or Andreas, or anyone
else I'm deeply sorry.
To go back to the original discussion, I agree that there should be
_something_ holding back the free loaders. Not sure exactly what,
so I'm monitoring the Commercial support thread to see
Jakob Eriksson wrote:
To go back to the original discussion, I agree that there should be
_something_ holding back the free loaders. Not sure exactly what,
so I'm monitoring the "Commercial support" thread to see what
the consensus ends up as.
Sponsoring Wine, is maybe
On 5/5/05, Jakob Eriksson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I invoke Godwins law.
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison
involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.
So, Are you saying I'm a Nazi for putting what you would consider a
high price tag on a listing? All
Andreas Mohr wrote:
Hi,
On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 02:57:17PM +0200, Boaz Harrosh wrote:
Tom Wickline wrote:
Here is my proposal...
Must I shoot myself now or can I do it next week? :) .
Indeed. I had the impression that the fascist Drittes Reich was long gone,
but upon reading
Rather than set threshholds on capacity, there might be a tiered
arrangement
whereby anybody can get a class D listing for nothing. Class C, B and
A
listings would cost $200, $1000, and $1. The page would then be
ranked by
listing class, and within listing class by geography.
How do you
Tom Wickline wrote:
On 5/5/05, Jakob Eriksson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I invoke Godwins law.
As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison
involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one.
So, Are you saying I'm a Nazi for putting what you would consider a
high price tag on
On 5/5/05, Peter Kovacs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
A general fee for all is better IMHO. We could make a fee 0f 200$ link
the List to a profile where the Companies stats is listed. There we
could make a Rubrik like the Company donated over X $ to the project.
That would state the closeness and
On 5/5/05, Jakob Eriksson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So, Are you saying I'm a Nazi for putting what you would consider a
high price tag on a listing? All I'm saying is the referral by
No. It was Andreas Mohr who first made the reference to the
Third Reich. I just pointed out that we now
Hi,
I think that everybody should have access to give support. If you put
some rules on companies have to start to think if they want to do that.
In order to make a difference to companies that do something and don't
they can enter their number of Employe who work on wine, Projects worked
on or
LOL !
bEUR $1.48 /b eh? I have long suspected the existance of eurodolloars
, now the cats out of the bag.
We'ed probably be as well adopting the US constitution while we're about
it. It makes more sense that the wooly non-constitution they are trying to
ram down our throats at the moment.
On 5/3/05, Dimitrie O. Paun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yes, I think being inclusive is better.
However, I also think that we need to pick the rules carefully so we don't
set up a bad precedent when half the world will be using Wine :). So here
is what I propose:
1. The list should be
Tom Wickline wrote:
Here is my proposal...
Must I shoot myself now or can I do it next week? :) .
On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 07:33:53AM -0400, Tom Wickline wrote:
1) a token monetary fee of around $10,000 per year.
I was thinking more like $100, to help out CW with hosting.
At 10K most companies will shy away, and we don't want that.
We want more people there, not fewer.
This is not money for
Hi,
On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 02:57:17PM +0200, Boaz Harrosh wrote:
Tom Wickline wrote:
Here is my proposal...
Must I shoot myself now or can I do it next week? :) .
Indeed. I had the impression that the fascist Drittes Reich was long gone,
but upon reading those lines...
I believe
On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 03:22:34PM -0500, Jeremy White wrote:
site should be open to anyone that requests to
be listed there, and that it should be in alphabetical
order.
Name recognition matters. In fact, for Open Source companies
it may be the only thing they have to work with. As such,
I
On 5/4/05, Dimitrie O. Paun [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, May 04, 2005 at 07:33:53AM -0400, Tom Wickline wrote:
1) a token monetary fee of around $10,000 per year.
I was thinking more like $100, to help out CW with hosting.
At 10K most companies will shy away, and we don't want that.
We
On Wed, 4 May 2005 22:35, Andreas Mohr wrote:
I believe that any serious amount of money for Wine support listing
is a mistake, since it keeps out some people.
Indeed. It seems to me that it would be better if anybody who has the
*capacity* to provide services could be listed - even if it's
Hi Jer,
When you finally get around to adding a commercial support to Winehq,
I would love this list to include:
Lingnu Open Source Consulting, web at http://www.lingnu.com.
On a different note. There is a page at
http://www.winehq.org/site/support, but there does not appear to be any
link
Shachar Shemesh schrieb am 03.05.2005 um 09:19 Uhr:
When you finally get around to adding a commercial support to Winehq,
I would love this list to include:
Lingnu Open Source Consulting, web at http://www.lingnu.com.
Following that proposal, I'd also ask you to add
ITOMIG, at http
for
community based support?
Shachar Shemesh wrote:
Hi Jer,
When you finally get around to adding a "commercial support" to Winehq,
I would love this list to include:
"Lingnu Open Source Consulting", web at http://www.lingnu.com.
On a different note. There is a page at
http:/
of commercial support is viewed by potential deployers as
a minus, making wine a dangerous technology. Saying here is a list of
companies willing to take your money and give you support is actually a
good thing for Wine.
And who to include and who not?
Ah, there you have hit a more serious problem
On Dienstag 03 Mai 2005 10:53, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
And who to include and who not?
[..]
I can suggest a simple rule to go by, as to whether to include a company
or not. In order to be included, a company has to show that it has
contributed (via it's employees or directly) a non-trivial
David Gmbel wrote:
I cannot say I am convinced this is a good rule to follow. First of all,
maybe I got things wrong at wineconf, but I remember something like anyone
who wants to be listed there should be being the last statement I heard in
the lecture room.
I'm actually in favor of this. I
I think support has nothing to do with submitting patches.but with
giving support, if we are at it.
Wine is going to play a major role by Linux Vendors, where support is
the major income; it does it already now. Wine is integrated into
migration plans quite tightly for applications
is coding and support issues are
something else
In my experience, you can solve 0% of enterprise support requests (which
is what commercial support about) without doing some level of hacking on
Wine. I'd love to hear Jeremy's input on that one, as they have MUCH
more experience at it then we
a patch qualify for better listing? I don't
think there is any connection between them...coding is coding and
support issues are something else
In my experience, you can solve 0% of enterprise support requests
(which is what commercial support about) without doing some level of
hacking
Hi,
On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 01:50:20PM +0300, MediaHost (TM) wrote:
I think support has nothing to do with submitting patches.but with
giving support, if we are at it.
I have to disagree rather strongly. While Wine might get to a state
where many people are going to use it and mere
to expand on the Samba Team's experience with
commercial support lists.
The primary experience is that such lists much be maintained, and
current. For many years, our list was unmaintained, but over the last
year we have had a new website maintainer, and at least companies that
don't reply to e
Andrew Bartlett wrote:
I think it is worthwhile to expand on the Samba Team's experience with
commercial support lists.
The primary experience is that such lists much be maintained, and
current. For many years, our list was unmaintained, but over the last
year we have had a new website maintainer
On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 11:33:36AM +0200, David Gümbel wrote:
So I'd suggest listing anyone who can prove he has contributed to Wine in
whatever way - making a donation, having contributed code, whatever - , and
let the customers decide whom to select for their particular problem.
Yes, I
The point I wanted to make is, that only submitting patches or saying,
"we give wine support", may hurt the wine project more than it helps:
1.) I didn't want to write this, so not to make this thread as an
opportunity to make some self advertisement, but I need to explain:
Linux Vendors are
On Tue, 2005-05-03 at 09:02 -0400, Dimitrie O. Paun wrote:
On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 11:33:36AM +0200, David Gmbel wrote:
So I'd suggest listing anyone who can prove he has contributed to Wine in
whatever way - making a donation, having contributed code, whatever - , and
let the customers
Hi,
On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 03:38:51PM +0300, Shachar Shemesh wrote:
I guess the reason both Andreas and myself think it is a good idea to
rank them has to do with the maturity of wine vs. Samba. While it is
true that both Andreas and myself believe that our companies should be
ranked high
it to in the past year. At the moment, I
At some point over the next few weeks I'll throw something together
(feel free to beat me to it.)
I don't think we need any criteria about contribuing to Wine or a
platinum level. If you're crazy enough^H^H^H^H^H able to do
commercial support then we should
On Dienstag 03 Mai 2005 15:31, Andrew Bartlett wrote:
Folks who are incompetent will soon show this to their clients in their
own time, why should Wine mailing list be making a statements about
companies to which most will not have had contact as a customer.
ACK.
Samba has a large support
enough^H^H^H^H^H able to do
commercial support then we should advertise it. There's plenty of
companies who can do support without the knowledge to contribute. In
fact, you could think of them offering support as their way of
contributing. Support companies can also 'escalate' to someone else
Oh, fine, start a flame war while I'm off
travelling around Germany. grin
In my not very humble opinion, I think that any
commercial support section of the WineHQ web
site should be open to anyone that requests to
be listed there, and that it should be in alphabetical
order. However, I think
On Tue, 03 May 2005 22:22:34 +0200, Jeremy White [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Now you can take my $0.02 and add EUR $1.48, and you
have a cup of coffee (and you really will, because
you don't have to factor in tax, and that's so nice) :-/
LOL !
bEUR $1.48 /b eh? I have long suspected the existance
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