Thanks, Anne - I would not have known how to begin to approach those technical points as you well know.
Gregg, in whatever commercial work I do, I tend to have contact with a lot of people and a lot of companies, sometimes from cold with no minimal preconceptions on my part. This forces me to look at things from the customer's point of you. To use my own hackeyed expression "I put myself behind the user's eyeballs." BTW I then look outwards! However objective one's arguments appear you can never ignore subjective perceptions when it comes to decision-making. As Anne, who also has a lot of customer contact, says, politics happen. It is not just a matter of relations between colleagues. People tend to like what they know and can understand and master. Your technical arguments might seem unassailable to you as an experienced engineer. However, like it or not, not everyone will be convinced to adopt your recommendations, partly because the merits of the latter notwithstanding, they want to avoid the consequent disruption of their environment which is as it is for better or worse because of past decisions. The inertia of the status quo in terms of operating environments, existing skills, available support, need for training, relationships with influential suppliers (e.g. Microsoft), the comfort that comes with familiarity etc. should never be underestimated. One of the ways Java advocates sometimes arouse resentment is by being perceived as trying to impose their language and environment, and only theirs, on others, however distorted that perception may be. A corollary of course is when MS advocates are seen to impose Windows and .NET to the exclusion of other platforms on others. When one is recommending what seems unassailably correct, its rejection might seem desperately unfair and illogical - that is the reality of human nature that commercial people have to deal with every day. Gervas --- In [email protected], "Anne Thomas Manes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Gregg, > > Unfortunately, the market frequently isn't especially concerned with the > best technical solution. Politics happen. > > I know the JERI enables interoperability with non-Java environments, but > Jini/JS still has a hard dependency on Java, and that will always cause > political resistence, limiting its potential adoption rates. > > btw -- this comment isn't quite accurate: > > "In WS-* applications the conversion from native data types to SOAP or some > other wire or invocation layer representation is done smack in the middle of > the application. What difference does it make where that conversion is > done?" > > Typically when using a SOAP framework, such as .NET, Apache Axis, WebSphere, > WebLogic, SAP NetWeaver, SOAP:Lite, PEAR SOAP, Ruby SOAP, etc, the > application doesn't need to perform conversions from native types to XML. > The conversions are performed automatically by the middleware. In the Java > toolkits, a service is implemented as a POJO, and clients simply invoke > operations on proxy objects. It feels very much like RMI, although it's a > document exchange system rather than a distributed object system. Developers > should be aware of that subtle distinction (although many aren't -- leading > to a variety of bad practices). > > Anne > > On 4/8/06, Gregg Wonderly <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Gervas Douglas wrote: > > > Yes, Gregg, but like it or not, there are some people who do not want > > > to use Java. I believe some of them work in a town called Redmond. I > > > guess that it is as much a political issue as a technical one. > > > > Right, but how would one make another Linda implementation that swallowed > > XML > > directly, any less controversial :-) At some point it would be written in > > some > > language with some features associated with the transport of data into and > > out > > of it. Those features would either be enabling or confining for a > > specific set > > of use cases involving other languages/platforms. So what would be the > > advantage? > > > > I know I am arguing technically about a political point. I'm just trying > > to > > push hard enough to get more than an emotional response from those that > > want to > > argue about the political points of Java and Jini. > > > > If we could all just get to the technical issues... My feet are not > > feeling any > > colder though, so we probably still have a ways to go... > > > > Gregg Wonderly > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/service-orientated-architecture/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
