Re: [service-orientated-architecture] Re: R&J on SOA & the Zachman Framework

[Ron Schmelzer]

Heh, only on *THIS* list could a ZapFlash talking about the abstract nature of architecture and the application of enterprise architecture somehow get turned into a discussion of REST and protocols. Anyone care to comment on the basic premise of the ZapFlash? Namely that you can apply the Zachman Framework to SOA and vice-versa? If we ever plan to sell SOA to the business, we have to step it up a notch. Not to detract from the REST discussion here, but folks, we've already been through that numerous times. Ron Michael Champion wrote: I'm talking about PURISTS who believe that SQLis not compliant with the relational model (c.f. C.J. Date and the crew at dbdebunk.com).  Likewise I'm talking about people who argue that HTTP should be used to "transfer" resource representations rather than "transport" objects and methods.   Obviously SQL and HTTP are successful and will live for decades at least. What is less clear is whether the advice of those who derive recommendations from the abstract principles of the underlying theories  (as opposed to emipircally demonstrated successes) is to be taken particularly seriously.   To put it another way:  Most code is not particularly compliant with the principles of OO design; most databases are not highly normalized in acoordance with relational theory, and most successful websites use HTTP in a non-RESTful way.  Is this a problem, i.e. could they do better if they played by "the rules", or do the rules only apply in an idealized world?    Don't we need an answer to this kind of question before worrying about whether Zachman has a nice checklist of things to think about or a rigorous conceptual framework that one should adhere to?   p.s.  There's still time to submit your thoughts / experiences on the subject of how all this XML / web services / REST stuff really works in the enterprise-y world for the XML 2006 conference - http://www.idealliance.org/xmlusa/06/call/   On 6/16/06, patrickdlogan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > ...he reminded me of a RESTifarian (or a relational model purist for   Not much evidence that the relational model and the HTTP protocol will be long lived? Could you please define "long" and provide examples of "the alternatives that don't struggle too hard"? I have a feeling we may in fact live on different planets. -Patrick __________ NOD32 1.1606 (20060617) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com __________ NOD32 1.1606 (20060617) Information __________ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com -- _____________________________________________________________ Ronald Schmelzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] Senior Analyst ZapThink LLC Direct: 781-577-2779 / Main: 781-207-0203 __._,_.___ SPONSORED LINKS Computer software Computer aided design software Computer job Soa Service-oriented architecture YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS  Visit your group "service-orientated-architecture" on the web.    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. __,_._,___