--- Steve Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Agreed, but this was my point during the spec. I'm willing to bet > that during that sort of project you either a) had a J2EE app server > or b) used Tomcat with a bunch of other libraries. My problem with > the Sun approach is that it assumes you need everything in the JDK > and > just creates ridiculous things like now having a "lightweight" web > server in the JDK that is "just" for JAX-WS... how long before > someone > creates a JSP et al stack, or even worse does a half-arsed (is there > any other sort) PHP server using scripting + web server.
Frankly this just strikes me as an industry power struggle that's been going on for 15+ years, about which "thought leadership group" owns IT's agenda. Methodologists vs. Architects vs. Managers vs. Developers.... Anyway, given Gavin King's significant role in EJB3/JPA, Hani Suleiman's election to the JCP executive, etc. (both of which are good guys IMO) -- it's clear that developers have grassrootsbeen given an increasing role in defining Java's direction. This is probably because there are many challengers to Java (the language) and Java EE (all the lightweight frameworks), because the JCP hasn't been meeting developer needs quickly enough. Perhaps that's misplaced anxiety, but I think it's largely due to a perception that developers have a big influence over the industry's technology direction. That arguably was true for Windows (witness Microsoft's wooing of the in the 3.1 and 95 days), and true for early Java. Though vendors never felt that way (IBM, CA & Oracle sell to execs, IBM to architects & planners) and newer vendors (BEA) are learning to target architects & execs over devs (given many CA veterans now head up their senior team). I started seeing a slip in developer influence around the 2001-2004 timeframe, but with these blossoming of lightweight frameworks, languages, and agile approaches, there's a chance developers may regain influence from the "evil architects" ;-) I actually see this dynamic playing out in some very large companies, and it's a frightening sight. Cheers Stu ____________________________________________________________________________________ Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com
