On 14/12/06, Stuart Charlton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > --- Steve Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > Agreed, but this was my point during the spec. I'm willing to bet > > that during that sort of project you either a) had a J2EE app server > > or b) used Tomcat with a bunch of other libraries. My problem with > > the Sun approach is that it assumes you need everything in the JDK > > and > > just creates ridiculous things like now having a "lightweight" web > > server in the JDK that is "just" for JAX-WS... how long before > > someone > > creates a JSP et al stack, or even worse does a half-arsed (is there > > any other sort) PHP server using scripting + web server. > > Frankly this just strikes me as an industry power struggle that's been > going on for 15+ years, about which "thought leadership group" owns > IT's agenda. Methodologists vs. Architects vs. Managers vs. > Developers.... > > Anyway, given Gavin King's significant role in EJB3/JPA, Hani > Suleiman's election to the JCP executive, etc. (both of which are good > guys IMO) -- it's clear that developers have grassrootsbeen given an > increasing role in defining Java's direction. This is probably because > there are many challengers to Java (the language) and Java EE (all the > lightweight frameworks), because the JCP hasn't been meeting developer > needs quickly enough.
The JavaSE 6 bit though were pretty much just Sun's view on what "Joe Average" (a quoted individual) would need in JavaSE. It focused much more on the Slashdot crowd than it did on the professional developer. Its a real shame. > > Perhaps that's misplaced anxiety, but I think it's largely due to a > perception that developers have a big influence over the industry's > technology direction. That arguably was true for Windows (witness > Microsoft's wooing of the in the 3.1 and 95 days), and true for early > Java. Though vendors never felt that way (IBM, CA & Oracle sell to > execs, IBM to architects & planners) and newer vendors (BEA) are > learning to target architects & execs over devs (given many CA veterans > now head up their senior team). > > I started seeing a slip in developer influence around the 2001-2004 > timeframe, but with these blossoming of lightweight frameworks, > languages, and agile approaches, there's a chance developers may regain > influence from the "evil architects" ;-) I actually see this dynamic > playing out in some very large companies, and it's a frightening sight. The number of architects these days who don't understand the technology is truly frightening, its probably a sign of a maturing industry or something, but its pretty scary some of the suggestions I've seen made as "good" architectures that are in fact impossible (in some cases mathematically impossible) to implement. The other wave I still see is the "fan-boy" development community who read a blog post or a Slashdot article and then either a) develop a part of a big project using it, b) say that the entire company strategy should change to use it or c) start an underground movement of people using it in the belief that "everyone will come to realise". The later is often the worst of the two as it tends to explode in a mess, where as the first can often be ignored by good software architects and designers. > > Cheers > Stu > > __________________________________________________________ > Need a quick answer? Get one in minutes from people who know. > Ask your question on www.Answers.yahoo.com >
