On Monday, February 26, 2007, at 05:15PM, "Dennis Djenfer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >Hi Jan, > >It seems like you're saying that a message is self descriptive if it's >standardized, right?
If the payload and the remotely invoked operation both are standardized, then a mesage is self descriptive. IOW, if it is completely understandable without ever seeing the receiver or any interface description provided by the receiver. > >I'm curiouse about your defintion of a self-descriptive message: >Is an order message that follows a schema that has been defined by OASIS >UBL self-descriptive? here the remote operation is missing ( is the UBL order placed? or canceled? or archived? or indexed?) Assuming HTTP POST, then yes. >Is an order message that follows a schema that has been negotiated >out-of band between many organizations in a specific business domain >self-descriptive? Again assuming HTTP POST, then IMHO, yes. ake the court trial example to analyze the self-descriptiveness. Is a schema that has been negotiated out-of band between many organizations in a specific business domain sufficient to prove the senders intent. IMHO, yes. >Is an order message that follows a schema that has been negotiated >out-of band between two organizations self-descriptive? as a special case of the above, yes. But the out of band negotiation might not be as valuable as if there are meny parties' views mingled in it. >Is an EDI message that follows a structure that has been defined by an >EDI standard organization self-descriptive? Not sure about EDI (lack of knowledge), but IIRC from what I saw when I took a short look it seemed so. I guess EDI also defined a uniform process-this (POST) kind of operation, yes? Jan > > >// Dennis > >> Jan >> >> >> [1] You can of course also abuse those to tunnel commands >> >> >> >>> >>> Eric >>> ----- Original Message ---- >>> From: Jan Algermissen <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> >>> To: [email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]> >>> Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 2:53:27 PM >>> Subject: Re: [service-orientated-architecture] SOA Pizza Order Surprises >>> >>> >>> Eric, >>> >>> your posting 'deserves' a more detailed reply, so sorry for only >>> sending a short comment (I still have a pile of work on my desk for >>> tonight). >>> >>> On 25.02.2007, at 18:23, Eric Newcomer wrote: >>> >>>> It is just hard to believe that the lack of uniform interfaces in >>>> SOAP and WSDL is the cause of all the disconnect with the Web. >>> >>> The lack of a uniform interface (the plural doesn't really make sense >>> here, does it?) is contrary to the architectural style of the Web. >>> That is just an undebatable >>> fact. An architecture that does not employ a uniform interface can >>> never be of the REST style and an architecture that does not >>> specifically constrain itself to >>> HTTP's set of methods on all objects is necessarily disconnected from >>> the Web. >>> >>> Jan >>> >>> >>> (And, yes, GET /foo/lauchMissile is not HTTP's GET, it is tunneling >>> the launchMissile invocation through GET) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>> Bored stiff? >>> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49935/*http://games.yahoo.com> Loosen up... >>> Download and play hundreds of games for free >>> <http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=49935/*http://games.yahoo.com> on Yahoo! >>> Games. >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 268.18.4/702 - Release Date: 2007-02-25 >> 15:16 >> >
