I think Eric newcomer, or Ann can provide us with a definition to close up this endless spiral.
In addition, SOA is an intuitive, and someone has to take the intuitive. I did not see or hear about business who starts the initiative. Please take a look to SOA maturity model. Again, why do you try to imply the IT is different than the business. IT is suppose to build a business solutions not to build a systems for themselves. The IT systems is about business not about technology. All the best Ashraf Galal On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 1:05 PM, Michael Poulin <[email protected]> wrote: > I am afraid, it is an endless spiral... > > When I look at the standardized SOA definition (vs. home- or vendor-made), > I see no Web Services at all. > > I believe that 'they' may not start "unifying view of customer, from the > IT point of view" because it must be started from the Business point of > view. In SOA concept and modelling, the approach is only Top-Bottom; in SOA > implementaiton - the Bottom-Up gets added and they meet in the middle > (actually, they are getting synchronized all the time and synchronization is > achieved in the middle). > > SOA implementation is focused on building services (applications with > interfaces) that can be be maximally easily changed as in the parts as in > the compositions. Well defined interfaces is a good practice but not the > target. A well defined interface in not only the one, which is clear in each > of its element, but which is the same clear in all ways and mechanisms of > its possible changes (if needed) with all possible consequences of such > changes. > > For SOA service, it is not necessary to use the same interface in different > execution context; only the service has to be the same. This also means that > we may not expect the same behavior/result of the service in all execution > contexts (even at the technical level) because contexts' policies, > regulations, platforms, co-located apps and so on affect the service > execution. > > You see, Web Service or any other interface is just an interface, it does > not provide for service orientation by itself. > > As I said, I agree that "Web services are clearly the most promising > technology for distributed computing and systems integration" but Web > Services and/or integration itself is not enough to claim SOA. > > - Michael > > ------------------------------ > *From:* A W <[email protected]> > *To:* [email protected] > *Sent:* Saturday, January 3, 2009 3:09:52 PM > > *Subject:* Re: [service-orientated-architecture] How to start SOA in > Organization > > If you look to any SOA definition you will find that it is based on web > services technology, in most cases. > When they start to think about a unifying view of customer, from the IT > point of view, they will find that they must involve the business with them. > Remeber that there are top-bottom approach (your openion), Bottom-up and a > mix between them. > > Because SOA is focused on building applications using components with well > defined interfaces. > In addition, in SOA approach, the designer is not building a program, a > functional unit for one purpose/use only, rather, they are building a > service that has a well-defined interface and that can potentially be used > in multiple business contexts. > All the best > > Ashraf Galal > > On Sat, Jan 3, 2009 at 5:33 AM, Michael Poulin <m3pou...@yahoo. > com<[email protected]> > > wrote: > >> "Web services are clearly the most promising technology for distributed >> computing and systems integration" - is absolutely true but... have very >> little to do with service orientation, i.e. with SOA. Web Services >> are standard-based interfaces, nothing more. >> >> SOA starts from Business, not from IT. >> >> - Michael >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* A W <ashra...@gmail. com <[email protected]>> >> *To:* service-orientated- architecture@ yahoogroups. >> com<[email protected]> >> *Sent:* Saturday, January 3, 2009 2:54:10 AM >> *Subject:* Re: [service-orientated -architecture] How to start SOA in >> Organization >> >> Web services are clearly the most promising technology for distributed >> computing and systems integration. >> But, there are many reasons that go beyond technology. >> You have to build a framework for thinking about web services adoption in >> your organization that can bring some of the benefits of the technology >> without exposing you to unnecessary risk and expense. >> I think you need a help from external consultant. Don't try to step down >> the SOA road without such help. Specially, in your industry since in Teleco >> , the major problem is that business is the technology and the technology is >> the business. >> >> It is time to adopt web services in the organizations now but do not >> invest in technology in the beginning. Technology is not the problem. >> You don't need to have an organization wide SOA rollout, and you don't >> have to re engineer legacy systems that work well. >> However, you need to build the web services skill set in your company, >> because the technologies hold great promise for solving some of the >> tough(not all of course) problems facing IT. >> The technologies that are available in the market, either vendor or open >> source products, have achieved capabilities, scalability, ..etc., and ready >> to be used. >> I think a lot of projects in the teleco industry can benefit from >> application of web services, specially the network convergence. >> >> I think you will find customer data found in wirline, wireless and cabel. >> Try to build a unified view of your customer. You will learn too much. >> >> All the best >> >> Ashraf Galal >> >> >> >> On Fri, Jan 2, 2009 at 3:03 AM, Fakhar Imran <fakharimran77@ >> yahoo.com<[email protected]> >> > wrote: >> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> This is Fakhar from Pakistan, I am working for local Telecom company. >>> >>> I've been assigned to work on the in-house Application Development for >>> our business requirements and I was thinking about presenting SOA for >>> design and implementation for new Software Development. >>> >>> Right now our SW development is not very mature and my fellows are not >>> aware of benifits of SOA (that also includes me :-)). I was wondering >>> how >>> to convince for this grand shift as we are right now using .NET and >>> client-server model . >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Fakhar Imran >>> >>> >> >> > > >
