Why people who only know COBOL have to be taught SO? I think the only thing they have to be taught is how implement their COBOL projects to produce resources for others. SO will use those resources w/o informing them how they are used.
Plus, I am confused by 'most people know about the benefits SOA will bring - it's just that they don't know exactly how to implement it within their projects': benefits of SOA/SO are positioned ABOVE projects, in the Programmes and Corporate Planning. - Michael ________________________________ From: htshozawa <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, May 22, 2009 12:29:47 AM Subject: [service-orientated-architecture] Re: Linthicum on ROI I think it's not just knowing the metrics. I think most people know about the benefits SOA will bring - it's just that they don't know exactly how to implement it within their projects. Most large-scale systems are still being developed by people who only know COBOL and waterfall methodology. Trying to teach these people about SOA concepts so they will be able to "correctly" develop a system within the timeframe of a project is very difficult. (Have you ever try teaching someone who've been programming in assembler/COBOL about concept of class and object?) I think it's necessary to plan an SOA initiative taking budget, timeframe, and ability of members involved (or can be gathered). H.Ozawa --- In service-orientated- architecture@ yahoogroups. com, "Rob Eamon" <rea...@...> wrote: > > What's the world coming to--Michael and I have agreed 3 or 4 times in last > couple of weeks. Such madness! ;-) > > -Rob > > --- In service-orientated- architecture@ yahoogroups. com, Michael Poulin > <m3poulin@> wrote: > > > > In my coming book (Ladder to SOE) I elaborate on David Linthicum's metrics > > on SOA ROI and has come with a few formulas for different implementation > > scenarios. Unfortunately, the book will be available in June/July this year. > > > > I agree with Rob (:-), architecture itself is not the biggest contributor > > into ROI but its *enabler*. > > > > -Michael > > > > > > > > > > ____________ _________ _________ __ > > From: Rob Eamon <reamon@> > > To: service-orientated- architecture@ yahoogroups. com > > Sent: Thursday, May 21, 2009 6:24:15 PM > > Subject: [service-orientated -architecture] Re: Linthicum on ROI > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm reminded of Anne's point (also made by others?) that architecture isn't > > the effort/project of interest. It is the broader effort that prompted the > > architecture definition/rework that is key. One doesn't "do architecture" > > for the sake of architecture. > > > > "ROI of architecture" is misplaced, IMO. The creation of a blueprint to > > guide the creation of something is but a small part of the entire process. > > > > Thoughts? > > > > -Rob > > > > --- In service-orientated- architecture@ yahoogroups. com, Todd Biske > > <toddbiske@ ..> wrote: > > > > > > Reading this makes me wonder how many other efforts fall into the same > > > category? Lack of a business case or clear ROI is not a problem > > > specific to SOA. It is a problem for everything IT does. This is why > > > it is no surprise to me that Anne found a positive correlation between > > > solid application rationalization/ portfolio management efforts with > > > SOA success. I suspect the same thing will be true with cloud > > > computing, at least for companies with existing infrastructure. For > > > startups, it is a different story since they don't have to answer the > > > "what are my current costs" question. > > > > > > -tb > > > > > > Todd Biske > > > http://www.biske. com/blog/ > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > On May 21, 2009, at 7:24 AM, Gervas Douglas <gervas.douglas@ ...> > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks to Anne for pointing out this article: > > > > > > > > > > > > "A new Gartner survey of SOA architects finds 40 percent do not > > > > measure how long it takes to achieve a ROI for their SOA -- or if > > > > the darn thing had any business benefit, for that matter. Shame on > > > > you guys! According to the survey: > > > > > > > > Gartner, which carried out the survey among enterprises from around > > > > the world, also highlighted the fact that 50 per cent of those who > > > > had not yet adopted SOA technologies did so because they could not > > > > articulate and demonstrate the business value of it. > > > > > > > > [ Keep up on developments in SOA with InfoWorld's Technology: > > > > Architecture newsletter. ] > > > > > > > > The fact is that people love doing SOA, or SOA-like things, but hate > > > > doing the business cases or, more importantly, the analysis that > > > > needs to be done on the back end. There are no reasonable > > > > expectations set going into the project, nor any measurement of > > > > success on the back end. Thus, who knows if the SOA provided any > > > > business value? Also, there are no clear objectives. > > > > > > > > Massimo Pezzini, research vice president and fellow at Gartner, said > > > > that many companies were approaching SOA projects with excessive > > > > expectations and little awareness of the effort, resources and time > > > > needed to achieve any benefits. > > > > > > > > Some SOA projects are perceived to have failed when in fact there > > > > are simply no well established metrics to evaluate success," he said. > > > > > > > > Folks, you can't figure out if SOA is going to have any business > > > > value without doing a business case up front. This means > > > > understanding your core needs and how SOA will create an > > > > architecture that solves actual problems, and not just looking to > > > > push out an SOA because it seems like the right thing to do. > > > > > > > > The metrics/analysis are pretty simple: > > > > > > > > What are the current inefficiencies within the enterprise > > > > architecture, and how much do you think that's costing the business? > > > > What is the value of reuse, and how much reuse can you expect? > > > > What is the value of agility? > > > > What is the estimated cost of the project? > > > > What are the estimated benefits from the dollars spent? > > > > More importantly, how we define success -- or when we've achieved > > > > the objectives of the project? > > > > > > > > There's no excuse for leaving the ROI analysis out of this process. > > > > You've been hearing that from me for years, so go run some numbers." > > > > > > > > You can read this at: > > > > http://www.infoworld.com/d/architecture/soa-roi-does-not-seem-be-priority-265 > > > > > > > > Gervas > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
