Stuart Charlton wrote:
>  
> 
> Comments inline.
> 
> Sent from my iPad
> 
> On 2010-04-07, at 11:13 AM, Gregg Wonderly <[email protected] 
> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
> 
>>  
>>
>> Stuart Charlton wrote:
>> > I think there is plenty of room for improvement, but the Web is a much
>> > more "assembled" set of services than it was not even 2 years ago.
>> > Think about how many sites have a "share this!" section on them that a
>> > couple years back was "send an email" but now is Facebook, Twitter,
>> > Myspace, Reddit, Digg, Livejournal, Wave, etc.... Or how many sites I
>> > can use my Facebook account to log in to. Or how TripIt consolidates
>> > all my travel points programs for me via mashup..
>>
>> Yes, but think about how "general" it would be if the "content from 
>> the server"
>> didn't have to be "programmed" to contain these "hyper-link" just so 
>> that I
>> could click on them to get that "Feature".
>>
>> The iPad/iPhone model shows that "small simple" apps for "doing one 
>> thing" are
>> much easier to get right, and get people interested in, then the "all 
>> shiny do
>> everything app" of old.
>>
> I do not believe this is a valid conclusion.   The vast majority of 
> applications one uses on the iPad are web apps via Safari, only a 
> handful are native experiences, and these are only beneficial if they 
> are attempting to do something innovative with multitouch. 

I'm interested in knowing how much time you spend browsing, on the web, at EDGE 
or 3G speeds?  I spend a lot of time "on the go" doing exactly that.  The 
largest amount of time that I waste is waiting for all the page components to 
load when I switch pages.  I can consume the content quickly and easily with 
the 
multi-touch interface.

I'm also interested in knowing how much experience you have using CMS for web 
site design.  Templated sites are easy to put together from a simple structure 
perspective.  More complex sites with all kinds of JavaScript controlling 
random 
advertising content and all kinds of other optional DIV areas can be very 
challenging to get right without adequate tools.

My point is that dedicated apps with lightweight remote content are going to be 
much more performant than browser apps.

As an example of this, why in the world would there be an ABC app, instead of 
just a nice link to the web site, if it wasn't interesting to make it easier 
and 
faster to get people to the content they wanted to consume?

>> The browsers try to be the "all shiny do everything app" by supporting 
>> HTML
>> standards. They then limit what can happen because the "server" is 
>> completely
>> in charge of the user experience.
>>
> For good reason.

Which would be?

>> Do you feel more productive when you have five windows open and can click
>> between them and copy and paste and use each application for a "task", 
>> or do you
>> feel more productive clicking through 5 links and 4 "back" buttons 
>> trying to
>> find the user interface component that you saw a few clicks ago that 
>> might be
>> the one you need to use (let alone the "do you want to submit this 
>> form again"
>> prompts that you have to keep clicking on)?
>>
> The latter, though I often have many browser windows open.  

So you can't do what you want with one browser window open (no tabs), right? 
That is my point.  The multi-faceted work modes of most people demand simple to 
use, focused user interfaces.  For some types of applications, a web browser 
kind of app might be great.  I'm of the opinion that it's not the complete 
answer.  The model of remote resource access and the way that the user can 
access it through URIs is a start.  But, the technology has so many things that 
are just not concrete solutions, but instead provide capabilities that are very 
often the source of user experience problems.

>> It's interesting how bad the web experience is getting as people are 
>> dead set on
>> making one application/paradigm do everything...
>>
> Whats bad about it?  I seriously have no idea what you are talking 
> about.  The web experience is, if anything, improving rapidly.

You must not frequent the places that I do and have the same experience.

Some simple things.  First, there is no "User experience standard" for the web, 
as there is for operating systems, such as Windows, Macos-x, iPhone, iPad, etc. 
What this means is that anything that you can code, can be published and used. 
Great for freedom of design and all of that.  But, in the end, it means that 
you 
can find a very diverse set of UIs that are poorly designed and operate poorly.

Because the server is in control of everything that happens, the user doesn't 
have as many choices of when and how to proceed.  With a local application, I 
can leave the context stored in my computer and come back a week, year or 
decade 
later to continue where I left off.  Web services expire my context because 
they 
would otherwise become overwhelmed with all the local context they would be 
holding onto.

Cookies were invented to try and store more information remotely.  But, then we 
have cookie expiration timers, and the knowledge of the existence of the cookie 
that has to live at the server, so not really removing resources from the 
server.

So, web services are still a home for a lot of information that the user has to 
figure out how to get to and use to accomplish what they want.  The service 
flow 
itself has to be designed to support a work flow before the user can exercise 
that work flow.

There are so many web sites which have greatly broken and horribly designed 
user 
interfaces, yet are the front to resources that people would really like to 
use. 
  If the server and the resources are linked through the web service, then is 
the server a solution or a problem if the user can't use the resources?

Are things getting better?  I'm not sure.  Some web sites are better, but I 
seem 
to encounter something everyweek that is stuffed full of all kinds of graphics 
and context changes that take forever to get through at cellular network speeds.

We still have issues with plugins like the Flash player.  The need for such, in 
general makes my point about the browser not being a solution for everything 
and 
about how bad the web has gotten.

People are using Flash only because tooling allows them to easily wrap video 
and 
  flash provides them a since of security on how that video will be used.  But, 
that's a farce.

The ABC iPad app shows what can happen without a browser and without Flash.  
And 
yes, that app has bugs that crash the app...sigh...

Gregg Wonderly

> cheers
> Stu
> 
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