Brian, NBP is softest side of shaft. With a spinefinder, there is usually an N1 and N2 about opposite each other on a sheet wrapped graphite shaft, N1 being the softest and N2 being the stiffer of the two Ns. Same for the spines, with S1 being the stiffer of the 2 Ss. The N-planes and S-planes are usually about 90° apart. On a NeuFinder2 deflection shaft matching machine, these points are easy to identify, because I'm reading the actual deflection of each point in thousandths of an inch as I rotate the shaft.
NBP-COG is simply aligning the N-plane with the head's center of gravity. I usually use the N1 (or NBP) to the top of the club head, but don't think it really matters. I think that since the iron shafts are shorter and stiffer than woods, there isn't much toe droop with the N-plane near vertical. (Impact marks on my irons are where they should be.) But, I use a lot of longer A and L-flex shafts for senior wood clubs. Impact marks on my 450cc driver heads have shown me these shafts have a noticeable amount of toe droop... impact marks were almost all up a little too high on the face. So, I tried aligning S1 to the head's center of gravity, which puts the S-plane in a near vertical position (about 2 o'clock on a 450cc head). I had a very small impact area with this alignment, but no noticeable difference in distance beyond the customary NBP-target alignment. Some of the less expensive proprietary graphite shafts (under $20), which have very large spines in them (half a flex or more), seem very stable and play very well for me when aligned S1-COG on these large heads. If anyone else tries these two alignments to COG (it's very simple to do and I'll e-mail you instructions if you want to try it), I'd be interested in knowing if it makes any difference in the accuracy of your shots. Bernie Write to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Manning" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <ShopTalk@mail.msen.com> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2005 8:17 AM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Heavy Putter > Bernie, > > I can follow what you are saying, but get lost when you add COG to the > various planes (NBP, S1) > > What means this? > > Brian > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Bernie Baymiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <ShopTalk@mail.msen.com> > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 10:44 AM > Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Heavy Putter > > > > Mark, > > > > Are you seing more accuracy in the short irons, 8-iron through SW? That's > > how the NBP-COG alignment worked for me. Used to pull my 9- iron and PW > > about 5 yards left when I made a reasonably good swing for me and was > aimed > > at the pin. Now, my short irons are right on the stick when I'm on > balance, > > which is not easy for an old man on anti-rejection drugs. :-) The change > was > > kind of startling...worked for the past 5 years to hit straight PW shots > > with a square stance, which serves me fine with all other irons. On the > > range before a round, I always hit the first ten or so PW shots left. At > > first, I checked the PW lie, assuming that was the problem, but it was OK. > > First time out with my set of irons aligned NBP-COG, the first ten were > dead > > on the 120 flag. That accuracy has continued. > > > > Didn't have as much luck with NBP-COG using large wood heads and senior > > shafts. Impacts were up and down on the face. So, I tried S1-COG and that > > seems to work pretty well. Only difference seems to be S1-COG doesn't feel > > quite as smooth as NBP to target. > > > > Also, I've noticed that almost every NF2 (spinefinder) NBP-COG alignment > > FLOs very well, unless I have trouble locating the NBP on a weird shaft. > Do > > you get FLO with this alignment? > > > > Bernie > > Write to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mark A Patton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <ShopTalk@mail.msen.com> > > Sent: Saturday, February 12, 2005 9:13 AM > > Subject: RE: ShopTalk: Heavy Putter > > > > > > > I can vouch that my customers as well as myself seem to have a > preference > > > for COG-NBP. Its not that you see a night-day difference, just seems to > > > limit those odd ball shots, especially it seems in the shorter clubs. > > > > > > > > > > > > Mark A Patton > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bernie Baymiller > > > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 11:52 AM > > > To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com > > > Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Heavy Putter > > > > > > > > > Brian, > > > > > > Some sort of spine alignment has been done since the advent of hickory > > > shafts, if I remember my golf history correctly. Dick Weiss patented his > > > METHOD of doing spine alignment, and there are many who would dispute > that > > > patent, though no one has done it so far to my knowledge. In fact, I > think > > > we had discussions on Colin Dick's spinefinders here on Shoptalk before > > > Weiss's patent was issued. ASD (Advanced Shaft Dynamics) was opened by > > > Weiss's ex-president, Philip Talamonti, in competition with his old > boss, > > > because he thought Weiss's method was faulty. Vijay Singh is using ASD's > > > shafts at the moment. http://www.advancedshaft.com/ Vijay certainly > gives > > a > > > lot of credit to the ASD (super secret) method. Has anyone seen a > > > description of how he does it? > > > > > > Meanwhile the amateur FLO and spinefinder advocates continue to dispute > > each > > > other in every clubmaking forum on the net. It has been fun to watch and > > to > > > participate in all this "tech" stuff. I can tell you that I sure have > been > > > pleased with results matching and aligning shafts on my NF2...with a > > little > > > help from the info on John Kaufman's site and DT's comments on the > "true" > > > spine and NBP locatons. Add in Tom Wishon's thoughts on NBP-COG > alignment, > > > and I've built myself the most consistent and accurate set of irons I > ever > > > made...for under $15 a club. That's kind of been my challenge for the > last > > > ten years as a hobbyist clubmaker...make the best performing clubs for > the > > > lowest cost. > > > > > > Heh, heh...it's so much fun to make clubs for people who have OEM clubs > > they > > > can't hit and see them compare my "cheapos" performance to their big > bucks > > > alternatives. Just made a fairway 5W for a reasonably good woman player > > who > > > couldn't get her Callaway 5W up in the air (she doesn't play a 3W except > > off > > > the tee). Not only is my club better built, she now hits the ball at > the > > > proper trajectory and gets more distance with a $40 club. (And I made a > > few > > > bucks on that one, too.) > > > > > > Bernie > > > Write to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Brian Parkinson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > To: <ShopTalk@mail.msen.com> > > > Sent: Friday, February 11, 2005 10:09 AM > > > Subject: RE: ShopTalk: Heavy Putter > > > > > > > > > > That's why no one on this forum checks for spines, because it's been > > > > patented. (hee hee) > > > > > > > > Brian H. Parkinson, CPA > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > On > > > > Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Sent: Thursday, February 10, 2005 9:43 AM > > > > To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com > > > > Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Heavy Putter > > > > > > > > I'll second that! > > > > Pat McGoldrick---On Target Golf LLC > > > > Turnersville, NJ > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Dave Tutelman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > To: <ShopTalk@mail.msen.com> > > > > Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2005 8:06 AM > > > > Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Heavy Putter > > > > > > > > > > > > > Arnie, > > > > > > > > > > Bravo! > > > > > > > > > > DaveT > > > > > > > > > > At 03:32 AM 2/9/05 -0500, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > >Jeremy, > > > > > >Don't get upset about the "knockoff" terminology! The cleaned up > > > version > > > > > >is parallel technology. Sounds better, and quite high tech! But > when > > > you > > > > > >ask for specifics about a new product it sure appears that you plan > > on > > > > > >using the information to duplicate some aspects of the product > > without > > > > > >doing the research and experimentation. > > > > > >I am involved in several golf industry products with patents and I > > > would > > > > > >NEVER provide the type of information you requested! I would simply > > > sell > > > > > >the product to you and you can disassemble it to get the > information > > > > > >requested. At least the effort would produce one sale. > > > > > >I have introduced five products in another industry and have > > > experienced > > > > > >the competitive introductions by others who purchased the product I > > > > worked > > > > > >on and have spent countless hours with those in the legal > profession > > > > > >fighting the those who produce "similar" products after a > successful > > > > > >introduction. > > > > > >Even the developer of the heavy putter admits that it will happen. > > > > > >The key is to sell thousands, bank the profits and have an active > > > enough > > > > > >mind to come up with another winning product. > > > > > >I wish the heavy putter developer that success. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > > > > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.6 - Release Date: 2/7/05 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/2005 > > > > > > -- > > > No virus found in this outgoing message. > > > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > > > Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.8.7 - Release Date: 2/10/2005 > > > > > > > > > > > > >
