George and everyone
When a club works better for a golfer than what they had before, one has to look at the performance elements of the two clubs, one by one, and compare them to see what is different. Loft, Lie, Face Angle, CG position, MOI of the head, Bulge/Roll, length, shaft weight, shaft torque, shaft overall flex, shaft bend profile, swingweight, grip type/size, face design, face progression - when you see differences in any of these performance elements, you then can see which are different in the two clubs bring about the difference in performance for the golfer. Please understand that there is nothing inherently different about the square shape on its own. A square shape can possibly allow the CG to be positioned farther back from the face and it can allow the MOI of the head to be potentially a little higher. But on the other hand, if one knows what they are doing as a designer, one can take a non-square shape and get the CG just as far back from the face and set the MOI of the head at the same level as with a square head. To attribute differences in performance only to the square shape tends to shift the focus away from what really makes a golf club work better for any golfer - which quite simply is custom fitting, or, the combination of what all these fitting elements are and how well they allow the golfer to improve and get the most from their existing swing characteristics. TOM -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of GEORGE HUSON Sent: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 12:43 PM To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Square Drivers? I have been using the I-drive driver from Integra since they came out. I tried the Quadratic and the SV3 heads and have sold many of all 3 styles. I personally didn't like the sound of the Quadratic verses the other 2. It is more of a "wood" wood sound instead of a metal wood sound. I have found the distance on all three to be very close, and would be hard pressed to say one is longer then the other. That said I find I hit the I-drive much further then my old trusted Integra Super 450 head. While I am sure you can weight heads to get the same effect as a square head, if you started with a standard head the added weight might change the swing. I have found that I swing a little harder (6mph) with the square head. IMO The square design is great, I have people that are hitting fairways that never did before. I do agree with Bernie that the fairway woods do not go quite as far, (have not tried the quadratic), maybe 5-10 yards, however middle of the fairway means a lot. I also think that is because I am comparing it to the VS88 Ti fairway woods. One of the best low cost fairway woods in Ti on the market. That said the square fairway wood is the straightest fairway wood I have built or tried. I have sold many sets since they have come out. A few right out of my bag. I have replaced my VS88 5 wood with the I-drive 3 wood. I use it on the very tight holes where I have to be in the fairway. George Huson ByGeorge Custom Clubs Bernie Baymiller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: David, Yes, I certainly did receive dead Quadratic fairway heads. But it's seems amazing to me that my opinion would send a head into purgatory. For example's sake, my opinion has always been that almost anyone can learn to hit a long driver as accurately and farther than a short one if made correctly. And the dozens of times I've said that here on Shoptalk hasn't sent many short drivers into purgatory. :-) I wouldn't have given my "negative review" on the Quad fairways if I hadn't read many others' opinions who felt the same way. I know of 4 or 5 other clubmakers, both friends (one on Shoptalk) and quite a few on the FGI forum, who feel the same way I do. There are some positive comments on the FGI forum as well, but I think it's always good to be a little forewarned that a head doesn't work well for some players...at least I like to know of any problems someone has with a head. I got an early 3W and 5W and built them to 43" and 42". Has there been a change in the construction since then which has improved their distance? The Quad fairways do feel solid and get the ball up well, so I and another clubmaker are going to have a couple of senior women try our "dead" heads...perhaps the heads will perform OK with the slower swing speeds. But the 15 to 20 yards distance loss, compared with my Cydonia LCGs at equal lofts, is a significant difference. I've certainly played a lot of very good performing heads from Integra that I think did get a "bum rap"...the original Super 450 is still one of the best driver heads I've ever hit for feel and distance (not the beefed up version), though big hitters often crushed them. I still take my S450 driver out occasionally to compare with the new ones. The $45 VS88 III is a bargain for the price and has been very good for some of my senior customers at normal lengths to 46". And, I do like the Quad driver. It performs very well at normal lengths, as long hitting for me as my BOM at 47". But after more than a dozen rounds with it, I've found it's shape and more upright lie do not make the square head the best choice for consistent center impacts on longer drivers (47" and 48"). I'll use my Quad driver at 45" or less. Bernie [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: ShopTalk@mail.msen.com Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 11:06 PM Subject: Re: ShopTalk: Square Drivers? In a message dated 4/26/2007 6:25:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Incidentally, the Quadratic fairway woods are really duds...very short hitting at normal club lengths. Much shorter hitting than my 10 year old Cydonia LCGs. Almost feel like pot metal when I hit the Quad fairways. Bernie [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Bernie, Im sorry to hear you did not fair well with the Quadratic fairway wds. This is the 1st negative comment I have heard about them. We have sold 100's of them and every one seems to be very impressed, they are available in a 3, 5, 7, 9 and most people who have bought 1 like them so much that they come back and by others. I personally replaced my Ping raptor 2 Hybrid shafted in a VS Proto with a Quadratic 9 wd in a Prolite fairway shaft and I could not be happier with the results. I mention this because based on your comments Ed has now said that they are a poor performer and it strikes me that now others may just write that club off as another dud, and although it didn't suit you, it suits me very well, and has been one of the more successful fairway wds we have ever offered and in no way shape or form would I consider it a dud. I have hit these side by side with Sonartech's, Wishon's, Kzg's and Vector III's which are the best we have and they take a back seat to none in my experience. Thanks, David ************************************** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.
