I think you've hit the nail on the head. Having worked for 2 multinational tech companies, Australia is seen as small-to-medium, mature market whose main asset is its relative closeness to the high growth Asia region and its cultural similarity to the US. Tax is a minor issue compared to the relatively high cost of Australian labour.
And let's stop to think about the tech success story of the last decade: India. Indian IT firms prospered because they were largely ignored by an incompetent and corrupt government more concerned with controlling the local manufacturing sector. Be careful what you wish for... Matt Moore +61 423 784 504 m...@innotecture.com.au Sent from my iPhone On Dec 4, 2010, at 11:17 AM, Paul Wallbank <paulwallb...@gmail.com> wrote: > I'll just jump in here with my experience of governments attracting > multinational corporations in with tax benefits: It largely doesn't > work. > > A good example is the Australian film industry where hundred of > million, if not billions, has been wasted by state and Federal > governments attracting over the last few decades. The recent NSW > Government film package is a case in point where 80% of the funding > goes to multinational corporations; > > http://www.nsw.gov.au/articles/25-million-film-funding-boost-0 > > This business model of desperately attracting has worked really well > for the local film industry as we see in this article: > > http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/movies/film-industry-struggling-as-hollywood-exits-stage-left-20101119-180vu.html > > It's worked well for the Kiwis as well who found their entire film > industry being held hostage to one producer and one multinational > studio. The concessions made almost certainly guarantee that any young > Kiwi looking at working in the film industry will high tail it to > Australia or the US for better income security and opportunities as > soon as their portfolio allows. > > The best example though is in the various government support industry > packages available, these are almost exclusively doled out to > organisations that will set up in Australia anyway. The NSW Government > spends a ridiculous amount of effort and money helping out foreign > branch offices who were going to set up in Sydney anyway. > > My favourite was the Victorian government paying Woolies to set up > stores in regional Victoria, the question being "why? Was Woolworths > going to set up the Sepparton BigW in Shanghai in the Victorian > taxpayer didn't help out?" > > Ultimately all of this support ends up being corporate welfare, a game > that both sides of Australian politics play all too well. > > What Australia needs are taxation, retirement and social security > policies that don't skew the playing field towards passive investments > such as property and shares so that individuals and corporations are > rewarded for investing in new productive businesses rather than > speculation. > > Just as a parting thought Geoff, I had a read through Anthony > Albanese's speech (who writes that crap?) and his announcement is > really just a talk fest for his union mates to pretend they are doing > something for their members and for Tony and his advisers to do some > networking with the big end of town. Business as usual really. > > Sorry for snark, but having been in this particular sausage machine I > know the workings are very unattractive, particularly if you give a > damn about startups, entrepreneurs and small business. > > On Dec 3, 11:05 pm, Geoff Langdale <geoff.langd...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Has something changed with Google's tax situation? I keep seeing these >> references to Google (amongst others, including Facebook) being more >> or less attracted by tax breaks here in Australia. As of not too long >> ago, they barely paid any tax here: >> >> "google didn't need excessive government tax breaks to entice them to >> come here. " >> >> Well, no, Google needed only the standard corporate tax rate in >> Ireland to come to Australia, apparently: >> >> http://www.smh.com.au/business/net-profits-the-tax-move-that-makes-go...http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/google-figures-in-ne... >> >> I'm not especially irate over this; it's just weird to see people >> pointing to Google's presence in Sydney as having something to do with >> corporate tax rates in Australia when Google doesn't really pay >> Australian corporate tax rates in any way, shape or form. Unless >> something has changed since May this year, anyhow. >> >> Geoff. >> >> On Dec 3, 2:18 pm, Dylan Jay <d...@pretaweb.com> wrote: >> >>> On 03/12/2010, at 12:08 PM, Elias Bizannes wrote: >> >>>> No Australian tech startup will get big unless it plans to go overseas >>>> one day. Any success we've had had looked beyond Australia. The >>>> market's just not big enough. Just look at Atlassian's international >>>> focus or the fact 95% of Tjoos.com revenue came from the US (and it >>>> wouldn't surprise me if that was the same case as retailmenot.com) >> >>>> Multi-nationals bring experienced employees from other markets, >>>> capital injections, and generate talent demand in the local market. >>>> Looks at what Google's HQ in Sydney has done: it acquired a startup >>>> (now known as Google Maps), it's brought some kick-arse people from >> >>> you made my point for me. Atlassian and Tjoos both kept a most of >>> their development/founders local and google didn't need excessive >>> government tax breaks to entice them to come here. >> >>> I'm just putting it out there, that perhaps large companies attracted >>> by tax incentives are the sort that will create a meaningful impact. >>> I'm not saying its a bad idea, just that there are better ways to >>> spend the money such as preventing our education system going down the >>> drain, or giving providing free rent to small startups. >> >>> I can't really complain too loudly I guess since I'm a product of a >>> one of the largest Sydney based R&D arms of a US multinational of it's >>> day, Bell labs (Avaya/Lucent). I'm one of several ex-employess that >>> have startups (another has even exited via selling to another well >>> known australian startup). Again however, no big tax incentives were >>> needed other than what is already offered. What it took was some >>> really strong willed managers that fought tooth and nail to be >>> recognised and gain projects from a culture of people that don't think >>> out side their own country very much. >>> In the same way that people like MCB and Lars made hard decisions to >>> stay rooted in Australia. These people show you can stay here and >>> still be successful. Lots of people want to follow their lead. Let's >>> ask for money to help these new startups, not help facebook, microsoft >>> or citrix etc. >> >>>> Of all the Aussies in the Valley, almost all of us are committed to >>>> coming back one day. Let people go overseas and get experience and >>>> they'll come back -- we don't need to lock them to Australia. Thats a >>>> very short-term view of building the industry as yes it hurts us now, >>>> but benefits accrue in the long term. Some of the Aussies have already >>>> had success here and will bring that money back to Australia as >>>> angels, along with the experience they've developed. >> >>>> Elias Bizannes >>>> http://eliasbizannes.com >> >>>> On Thu, Dec 2, 2010 at 4:54 PM, Dylan Jay <d...@pretaweb.com> wrote: >> >>>>> On 03/12/2010, at 9:10 AM, Elias Bizannes wrote: >> >>>>>> The government needs to focus on increasing incentives for >>>>>> entrepreneurs and angels through tax policy. Reduce taxes so that it >>>>>> attracts multinationals, whose workforce build the industry (Google >>>>>> now, Facebook tomorrow) and provide an exit market for a developing >>>>>> angel industry and early stage market. >> >>>>> I'm no expert but that seemed to have worked out badly for Ireland. >> >>>>> maybe keeping successful startups from leaving is better than >>>>> transplanting >>>>> multinationals here since they are more likely to be committed + >>>>> become >>>>> angel investor/mentors? >> >>>>> -- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon >>>>> Beach >>>>> Australia mailing list. >> >>>>> Guidelines on discussion: >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia/msg/351e183e13... >> >>>>> No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself. >> >>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>> silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>>> silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>>> http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en >> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon >>>> Beach Australia mailing list. >> >>>> Guidelines on >>>> discussion:http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia/msg/351e183e13... >> >>>> No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself. >> >>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>> silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >>>> silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>> For more options, visit this group at >>>> http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon Beach > Australia mailing list. > > Guidelines on discussion: > http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia/msg/351e183e1303508d?hl=en%3Fhl%3Den > > No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself. > > To post to this group, send email to > silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Silicon Beach Australia mailing list. Guidelines on discussion: http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia/msg/351e183e1303508d?hl=en%3Fhl%3Den No lurkers! It is expected that you introduce yourself. To post to this group, send email to silicon-beach-australia@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to silicon-beach-australia+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/silicon-beach-australia?hl=en?hl=en
