Hi folks,
Thank you for sharing your opinions, as I requested. I hope
that those
that are threatening to leave will hang around long enough to see
the
end of this discussion and take part in forming its results.
A
number of quite interesting points are being made, and others are
being
demonstrated, although not by anyone's specific remarks...
One of the latter
points this discussion shows, confirming over a
decade of experience for me,
is that our group has been and always will
be divided between those who
want more free-flowing discussion and
others who want us to remain closer
to the topic -- and neither group
will ever be completely satisfied with
any compromise that I ever
strike between the two extremes!
(Yes, there
are folks who are pretty well satisfied in the middle
ground, too! <grin>)
So, on this first point, please let me offer a few remarks that I hope
will help everyone understand better what it takes to keep this forum
even half-way successful in its mission...
***POINTS TO PONDER
Remember,
first of all, that I don't see messages before they go out! I
do all my
"moderating" after the fact. I depend on EACH OF YOU to
regulate your own
behavior, consistent with the list rules and the
culture I try to instill
in the membership by public guidance and
private coaching. Your
self-control is the price I demand of you for
the privelege of staying in the group.
Next, one of the very first things I learned when I took over ownership
of the list is that I would NEVER be allowed to stop ALL off-topic
posting if our group were going to continue to accomplish what we
should and
could with our efforts. Here's why:
Inevitably, easily half the questions
people will ask have a non-CS
related component: "Will CS cure...?" "My
friend has ... will CS help?"
"Does anybody know anything to do for ...?
Whether CS is useful in each
case or not, a lot of the time there are
non-CS-related answers that
these people need and deserve to hear. I've never
prohibited non-CS-
related information that might be able to HELP somebody.
Other questions people ask have no relationship to CS to begin with,
yet
are obviously important or urgent for them, and frequently
interesting to
many of the rest of us.
The guideline for these worthwhile off-topic
discussions? Make them
fairly brief, a day or two, giving out basic information
and pointers
to other resources so folks can continue their research
elsewhere.
For me to re-evaluate this fundamenal aspect of the list would
require
some pretty convincing arguments. Many members have just finished
saying how much valuable stuff they've learned from the group on topics
besides CS. I would not want those questions to go unanswered.
Another point to
consider is the members' responsibility to mold the
discussion to their
own needs. All new members are urged (in the
instructions they receive upon
joining) to ASK QUESTIONS in order to
get the conversation moving in a
direction that will help them. When
they do this they normally get answers.
If they don't, the conversation
moves on without them.
This is not an
organized lecture series, where you can sit back
passively and have all
your questions answered, but rather more like a
cocktail party, with folks
milling around and talking amongst
themselves. Anyone who wants to pick up
the microphone and ask a
question about the main topic is welcome to do so,
and they'll get
plenty of help as long as they need it.
If I demanded
that everybody sit quietly until somebody asks a proper
question, it would
be a very different place, and I think we'd lose a
whole lot more people
than we probably do when things get too noisy for
too long.
Who's to
say what's the right balance? Ummm... Well, me, I'm afraid.
Which is why
I'm asking questions.
*** DEFINING THE PROBLEM
Now, as I consider
specific actions or possible changes in policy in
response to the present
complaints, I think we might all benefit from
some analysis to see just how
things really look.
I've surveyed list traffic for the first 23 days of
August. Here are
some statistics:
*** Posts per day:
average 24.26
mean 22.04
min 8
max 50
stdev 10.68
There've been 5 days over 30 messages
and 8 days under 20.
*** Counting threads and posts:
Threads ranged from
single unanswered posts to multi-day 40-post
behemoths. For this analysis
I looked at Subject: lines and samplings
of posts, but did not account
for subject drift within threads or count
threads with "Unidentified Topic"
or "Silver Digest" titles.
On topic threads have a significant CS
component. Threads for Other
Questions offer information not related to CS but
relevant to health-
related questions raised by members. Off topic counts
everything from
Kurt's polemics to computer questions to humor and
chit-chat.
On topic: 44 threads; 194 posts
Other questions: 32 threads; 198
posts
Off-Topic: 30 threads; 136 posts
Frankly, I'm not willing to analyse
and rate each of the 554 posts in
the sample in detail, if it's okay with
all of you. I do need to get to
bed sometime this morning! <grin>
***SUGGESTIONS? ANALYSIS?
As I see it, lately we've averaged about TWO DOZEN
posts per day, and
between a third and half of them are the usual lower
quality, for a
variety of reasons. But, then, the percentage of CS-related
questions
people ask that get answered and discussed is very high.
It's
my normal practice to ask for OT threads that drag on too long to
be ended,
but it's been weeks since I've needed to, as most such
threads have ended
of their own accord within a (mostly) reasonable
timeframe and total list
traffic has averaged low to moderate. Self-
regulation does seem to work,
after a fashion.
So, I'm open to specific suggestions or ideas. In light
of the points
I've made above, please tell me:
How much traffic is too
much? Off topic versus on-topic?
Do you feel my basic policies need to be
changed or updated?
Should I do a better job of enforcing them? How,
specifically?
Should we stop answering non-CS-related health questions
entirely?
Should we ban *all* politics-related posts, no matter their
importance?
Or is the existing policy (brief, occasional, little or no discussion)
good enough if it's enforced?
Should I more vigorously police the
"style" of certain messages so as
not to scare new people off or annoy the
regulars?
Any other points you think I've not covered yet?
Reply to me
privately or to the list, as you prefer. Even if you've
already "said your
piece" I'd appreciate your reflection on my thinking
thus far and how (or
if!) I'm addressing your concerns.
There's more for me to say, and I
will. I've seen some very nice points
being made and suggestions offered that
I'd like to comment on, but I'm
going to stop for now and get some sleep.
<Yawn!>
Thank you for your patience, ladies and gentlemen. It's not a bad
thing
to air grievances and sound each other out every once in a while,
though I *will* get riled if folks make a habit of spouting off their
objections on the list instead of privately! <scowls at David!>
<grin>
Ultimately I alone have to decide how things will be run, but your
feelings
and thoughts are important to my thinking.
Peace,
Mike Devour
silver-list owner
[Mike Devour, Citizen, Patriot, Libertarian]
[mdev...@eskimo.com
]
[Speaking only for myself... ]
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