I don't have the patience to follow all the arguments here but I believe it would be appropriate to say the following:
The burning from the applied DC is not from heat produced around the electrodes, or from corrosive chemicals. It is from the electrons finding a low resistant path and concentrating along that path, damaging the tissues. Evening and spreading out the resistance along the electrode as well as periodic repositioning of electrodes and polarity swapping, as well as limiting voltage or current, seems to reduce this occurrence. Dan On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 10:19 AM, Marshall Dudley <mdud...@king-cart.com> wrote: > Ode Coyote wrote: >> >> >> By what mechanism could low voltage current travel in a liquid >> environment other than ionic electro-chemicals? >> Even neurotransmitters work that way...just higher speed chained reactions >> is all. >> High voltage establishes ionization paths. >> >> Even Microwaves designed to cook things don't penetrate very far and >> probably do most of the cooking via thermal conduction just like any other >> oven. >> [No, they don't heat from the inside out ] > > Whether it cooks from the inside out or not depends on the relative > absorption of the layers. An egg, or meat that is covered with dry breading > will actually cook from the inside out because the shell or breading absorbs > almost no radiation and thus will not heat up except from the thermal > conduction from the inside. >> >> Rife was observing effects on a microscope slide...very thin. >> His tech may well have worked on larger samples [people] and he not really >> know why. >> Unless his electromagnetic beams were up there in the x ray frequency >> ranges that could make it between water molecules. ..Ionizing Induction? > > The frequencies are too low to be ionizing. The electromagnetic wave does > not have to be of x-ray frequency, it induces current into the body, just > like a zapper or pulser does. It could be through of as a pulser which > covers a larger area AND is frequency tunable. >> >> What does "ionizing radiation" mean? Ionize "what" into what...how ? > > Ionize means sufficient energy in a particle to cause the an electron to get > knocked out of its orbit, making the atom it comes from a positive ion, and > where it ends up a negative ion. Particles of such energy can break up DNA > as well. >> >> Even most *nuclear* radiation is stopped by thin wet surfaces. > > Depends on what it is. X-Rays and gamma rays can penetrate anywhere from > inches to feet of most substances. Alphas can be stopped by a sheet of > paper and might travel an inch in air, betas will travel further, maybe 1/4 > inch of paper or a couple of feet in air depending on the energy. Neutrons > are odd, they will travel through inches of lead, but be stopped by a > fraction of an inch of heavy water. >> >> I have yet to see any Zapper maker that has made the connection between >> how a Zapper works, how electro-plating works and how a CS generator works, >> when all of them are the exact same machine, just applied to jars of >> different substances in water and using different metals as electrodes. > > Because that is not how they work. If it were, then they would not work for > those that use the damp cloth over the electrode like I do, and the pulser > which works the same way would not work either. >> >> Disregard *what* they do for a moment and look at *how* they ALL do it. >> What makes a Zapper different? Nothing. > > Different than what? >> >> Why a DC offset? Because AC would just chemically cancel itself if the >> effect of the polarity change is slower than how fast the chemical change >> can leave the area by blood flow in that surface. >> > Actually that is not true. I have done electrolysis on salt water many > times using AC, it works fine, nothing cancels out, and I get just as much > chlorine and hydrogen as when I used DC, except that they were mixed instead > of separate. >> >> That burning of skin is not from heat. > > That is correct, that is why one should use the wet towel, so you don't get > burned or exposed to the corrosive chemicals. >> >> If it were a result of current flow like happens in a wire with nothing >> but electrons bouncing around, the entire circuit would be at least nearly >> the same temperature. >> Try this: Put an analog milliam-meter in line with an electrode and see >> if the current has a perceivable rise rate as electro-chemicals build up >> concentration to transport more electrons around as ions in ionic chemical >> compounds. >> If you can *see* it go up, it's SLOW and wires don't act that way. I >> don't think even a resistor slows the electrons down, it just blocks some of >> them and turns the impact energy into heat. > > Electrons actually speed up in a typical resistor. It, as you say blocks > some of them, so the others have to move faster to maintain the same > current. >> >> If that were "heat" burn, a thermometer made for pipples would peg. The >> skin can take 120 degrees F for extended periods of time, cooling itself off >> with sweat evaporation. >> See any sweat? [Well, given that the electrolyte used is so much like >> sweat, how could you tell...concept firm but probably not observable... BUT >> even then the PH would change and if it were nothing but sweat/electrolyte, >> unchanged... it wouldn't. Check it out. ] > > You are beating a dead horse. Burning from exposed electrodes is NOT from > heat. That is why one should use a wet towel over the electrode, it prevents > the burns, but the zapper still works fine even though the products no > longer make it to the skin. In view of that fact, you are actually arguing > my analysis and don't realize it. >> >> Ode >> >> >> >> At 11:46 AM 4/26/2010 -0400, you wrote: >>> >>> Resonant frequencies will disrupt DNA. This has been show with Rife >>> technology. A square wave is the fourier sum of all multiples of that >>> frequency. Thus a square wave will cause the DNA of pathogens to vibrate at >>> their resonant frequency and break apart. Once broken apart DNA tends to >>> drift back together and rejoin unless there is an electric field present to >>> force separation of the parts. That is how the zappers work. The principle >>> is the same, but the method of getting the quasi DC field is different >>> between the Beck and Clark zappers. >>> >>> The Clark zapper uses a DC offset to give the field, that is it uses >>> pulsing DC. The Beck unit uses a low frequency so that the parts are drawn >>> sufficiently far apart that they cannot find each other during one half >>> cycle of the wave. >>> >>> I don't think the electrochemical byproducts forming at the poles are >>> significant, since they would form on the surface of the skin, and the >>> zappers work quite well on internal parasites which would never ever see >>> these products. >>> >>> Marshall >>> >>> Ode Coyote wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> I don't think zappers actually "electrify" the blood. >>>> What they do is manufacture electrochemical byproducts according to >>>> what pole is ionizing [??] salt at that location. >>>> One pole Sodium Hydroxide, alkalizing there...the other Hypochlorus >>>> acid. [similar to MMS] >>>> If I'm getting "Positive Offset" correctly...that would be pulsed DC. >>>> The frequency of the DC pulse would then be an on/off [50/50 ? ]"duty >>>> cycle" to allow those chemicals to migrate faster than they build up in the >>>> skin causing chemical burns. >>>> A slower pulse would build up more before the blood in surface >>>> capillaries washes it in deeper and dilutes it...pretty much a matter of >>>> comfort level. >>>> >>>> Voltage doesn't matter, it's current delivered over an area [current >>>> density again] >>>> With a higher voltage, you can deliver more current over a smaller less >>>> conductive area. >>>> How much at a given voltage depends on the conductivity of the >>>> electrolyte on the pads or how wet and salty your skin and the size of the >>>> electrodes and how far apart they are on the body. >>>> I'd like to see a variable resistor or a pulse width modulator that can >>>> go to maybe a 20/80 duty cycle to get control of that over all current. >>>> >>>> You can get red itchy skin [mild chemical burning] at only 1.2 >>>> volts...or no burning at 24 volts depending on how the electrodes are >>>> configured. >>>> >>>> Ode >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> At 02:13 PM 4/24/2010 +0100, you wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I've been seriously considering buying a zapper and am toying between >>>>> these two. I'd really welcome any comments. Is there any advantage to >>>>> having >>>>> the dual frequency? I can see the timer might be a good idea. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Zapper-Dual-freqency-of-30KHZ-2-5KHZ_W0QQitemZ150430846490QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Health_Beauty_Natural_AlternativeTherapies?hash=item2306608e1a>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Zapper-Dual-freqency-of-30KHZ-2-5KHZ_W0QQitemZ150430846490QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Health_Beauty_Natural_AlternativeTherapies?hash=item2306608e1a >>>>> >>>>> and >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> <http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Zapper-Dr-Hulda-Clark-with-built-in-electronic-timer_W0QQitemZ150433257357QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Health_Beauty_Natural_AlternativeTherapies?hash=item230685578d>http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Zapper-Dr-Hulda-Clark-with-built-in-electronic-timer_W0QQitemZ150433257357QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Health_Beauty_Natural_AlternativeTherapies?hash=item230685578d >>>>> >>>>> I've also seen a 12v zapper. Is that one any better? >>>>> >>>>> Any advice would be really welcome >>>>> >>>>> Cheers >>>>> Kirsteen >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. >>>> Rules and Instructions: http://www.silverlist.org >>>> >>>> Unsubscribe: >>>> <mailto:silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com?subject=unsubscribe> >>>> Archives: >> >> http://www.mail-archive.com/silver-list@eskimo.com/maillist.html >>>> >>>> Off-Topic discussions: <mailto:silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com> >>>> List Owner: Mike Devour <mailto:mdev...@eskimo.com> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >> >> >> >> >> > >
