James,
Thanks for a gentlemanly, intelligent answer that leaves me more confused
than ever. + +
^
\_/
Sam
> Yes, Sam, there is an argument with that,
>
> and, I predict you will hear from Ivan shortly...
>
> Oxidation and reduction always occur together. An electron
> donator---almost always a metal---is called a reducing agent and is said
to
> be oxidized when it donates the -e. The electron receptor is called the
> oxidizing agent, and in the process is said to be reduced. The process is
> reversible under some conditions. I think there is some historical
> connection with oxygen, which is certainly an oxidizing agent. What you
> are describing is the creation of silver oxide, not a charged colloidal
> particle.
>
> These processes take place with electrons of the atoms outer shells. The
> charges present are called the valence of the atom or ion. It is not
> clear to myself how the positive charge on a cluster of silver atoms
> originates, but I don't think it is the valence charge of a single Ag atom
> which is a part of the cluster.
>
> There is no such thing as a free proton in an aqueous solution, as a
> hydrogen atom missing its electron; a nude proton bobbing around with its
> plus hanging out. Instead, the h+ gets involved with a water molecule to
> become H30+.
>
> Now, pure speculation: Or, is it possible that it gets 'associated' with a
> cluster of Ag? Trapped inside a micelle with a bunch of negative ends of
> some water structure? Data, are you there..., talk to me...
>
> If it were a missing electron, would not the Ag atom hitch up with some
> passing oxidizing agent hussy?
>
> This issue, the cause of the charge, is the source of much discussion,
and
> even some small amount of contention on this list.
>
> There must be someone lurking out there who is who knows, and is sitting
> back yucking as we founder about with these rube questions.
>
> Where is Robert Hunter when we need him the most....
>
> James Osbourne Holmes
> [email protected]
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Sam Earle [SMTP:[email protected]]
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 1:53 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: CS>Colloid? was baking soda
>
> >Positively charged silver particles are already oxidised (lost an
> >electron).
>
> I've seen this said several times, and at the risk of having my ears boxed
> by the real scientists on the list, I have to say it looks like nonsense.
> The loss of an electron gives a positive charge. That's not oxidation.
> Oxidation is picking up an oxygen atom and thus becoming part of a
> compound -- an oxide.
>
> Any argument with that?
>
> Sam
>
>
>
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