----- Original Message ----- From: add automation <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, 15 December 1999 16:06 Subject: Re: CS>LONG: Some Notes and a Few Questions on CS
> December 14, 1999 > > Hello Ivan, > > Thank you for responding to my post, and for the very nice > compliments. > > I don't think I was very clear in some areas, and would like to > explore these issues in more detail. > > I will focus on the key areas I am having trouble with. Please don't > feel I am being argumentative or disrespectful - that is not my > intent. I recognize you have been doing this for many years, and I > am just a beginner with a lot of questions. I very much appreciate > your counsel. > > But if my observations and conclusions are correct, they may be of > interest to others who are taking colloidal silver. > > I will start in the middle of the original post: > > >> Peter recommends against using salt to speed up the process. He > >> states this produces silver chloride, which is undesirable. > > >> In fact, I test for silver ions by pouring an inch of liquid into > >> a small glass and adding a few grains of salt. > > >> In a few minutes, a beautiful pale blue/white dispersion forms. > >> When I put the glass in direct sunlight, the color changes from > >> pale blue to a pale gray. > > >> When I repeat the same tests using plain distilled water, there > >> is no change. > > >> Here are the relevant equations: > > >> From the dissociation of salt in water: > > >> NaCl(s) + H2O ---> Na(+)(aq) + Cl(-)(aq) > > >> A silver ion reacts with a chlorine ion to form silver chloride: > > >> Ag(+)(aq) + Cl(-)(aq) ---> AgCl(s) > > >> The silver chloride is insoluble in water and precipitates out as > >> a white solid. > > > AgCl is soluble to a small concentration. > > >> Silver chloride turns black when exposed to light: > > >> 2Ag(+)Cl(-) + light ---> 2Ag + Cl[2](g) > > >> So, I conclude the salt test shows the presence of silver ions. I > >> think adding ammonia would dissolve the silver chloride, but I > >> haven't tried that experiment yet. > > >> But everyone seems to agree using salt to make colloidal silver > >> is a bad idea - it makes silver chloride. But nobody takes the > >> next step to balance the chemical equation. > > >> What happens to the sodium ion? > > >> The equation for adding metallic sodium to water is: > > >> 2 Na(s) + 2 H2O ---> 2 NaOH(aq) + H2(g) > > >> As far as I can determine, the displaced sodium ion reacts with > >> water to form sodium hydroxide. > > > The sodium is already oxidised, and further oxidation requires > > more energy. It may combine with the extremely small number > > hydroxile ions in water. Apart from that it remains a spectator > > ion. > > This disturbs me, since sodium is such a reactive ion. Since water > is continually in the process of dissociation, it would seem a > sodium ion would have no problem picking up a hydroxyl ion to form > sodium hydroxide. The confusion here is understandable. Sodium metal is a strong reducer and wants to donate electrons to another element. It reacts with the hydrogen ion (H+) giving up an electron to it in a violent manner, the hydrogen combines to produce H2 gas. The resultant sodium hydroxide is one of the few hydroxides soluble in water and so the Na+ and OH- ions are disassociated and free (more or less). The sodium ion is now quite stable and it is this form of sodium which is an essential mineral in the human body, controlling, with K+, transportation across the cellular wall. Sodium hydroxide is also a strong reducing agent, but in this case the OH- ions wish to donate electrons. The reason that sodium hydroxide is reactive is because the hydroxyl ions are not bound, but free in solution. Sodium chloride is also soluble, resulting in a solution of discrete and unassociated Na+ and Cl- ions. The sodium ions left in solution after Ag+ reacts with Cl- and precipitates out, do not form bonds with the minute amounts of OH- ions found in neutral water (1.0 x 10^-14 ), but I guess one could say that a solution of sodium hydroxide is formed of about the same percentage concentration. > I searched the web for a way to test for sodium hydroxide in a > solution. The test had to be simple, inexpensive, reproducible, > foolproof, and unambiguous. > > There is such a test. If aluminum is placed in a solution containing > sodium hydroxide, the sodium hydroxide dissolves the aluminum oxide > that protects the bare aluminum. Water then acts as an acid that > eats the unprotected aluminum. > > There is a very nice description with dramatic photos at > > http://pciii-2.chemie.uni-siegen.de/pci/versuche/english/v44-10.html > > It was not clear if this reaction would still occur with the weak > solution of sodium hydroxide I expected, but I decided to give it a > try. > > I poured about an inch of colloidal silver into a glass and added > salt. The familiar pale blue/white silver chloride precipitate > appeared. I then added a small piece of aluminum foil, about 1/4" > square. > > I made a control by adding the same amount of salt to another glass > containing an inch of plain distilled water, and added another piece > of aluminum foil 1/4" square. > > The next day, I removed the pieces of aluminum foil and placed them > side-by-side on the table. > > The difference was dramatic. The aluminum foil from the colloidal > silver solution was quite dull. The piece from the distilled water > glass kept it's original brilliance. > > I checked again later in the day, and the foil from the silver > colloid solution looked worse. It continued to degrade. > > I concluded there was sodium hydroxide in the glass containing the > silver colloid. > > Now, I realize this doesn't create the kind of smoke and flames that > make a powerful demonstration, but to me the result is clear. Very enterprising Michael, but you must use a beakers with CS and aluminium, and NaCL and aluminium as controlls. I have dropped a piece of Al foil in 20 ppm CS and even within 3 hrs I have metallic flakes floating on top of the solution and what looks like pitting in the foil. > If silver ions enter our bloodstream, they immediately come in > contact with the salt in our blood, and convert to silver chloride. > > The sodium ion that is released produces sodium hydroxide, a very > dangerous chemical. Even if this were to happen the resultant sodium hydroxide will be about 0.002% and indeed if one were to drink water containing this amount of sodium hydroxide one might expect some health benefit form the lowering of the blood pH allowing complexed acid waste in the form of arterial plaques to be dissolved and eliminated, but that is another story! > >From the Canadian Centre for Occupational Health & Safety (CCOHS), > in the "Health Effects of Sodium Hydroxide", at > > http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/sodium_hydroxid e/health_sod.html > > "What happens when sodium hydroxide solutions comes into contact > with my skin?" > > "Sodium hydroxide is extremely corrosive and is capable of causing > severe burns with deep ulceration and permanent scarring. It can > penetrate to deeper layers of skin and corrosion will continue > until removed." > > "The severity of injury depends on the concentration of the > solution and the duration of exposure. Burns may not be > immediately painful; onset of pain may be delayed minutes to > hours. Several human studies and case reports describe the > corrosive effects of sodium hydroxide." > > "A 4% solution of sodium hydroxide, applied to a volunteer's arm > for 15 to 180 minutes, caused damage which progressed from > destruction of cells of the hard outer layer of the skin within 15 > minutes to total destruction of all layers of the skin in 60 > minutes." > > So, unless the body has some way of neutralizing sodium hydroxide, > it would continue to do a lot of damage until it is eliminated from > the body. This is a high concentration of NaOH and not really relevent. > > Most compounds at the concentration of caustic soda that would > > some harm you wouldn't want in your body. Besides that NaOH would > > be neutralised by the HCl content of the stomach. > > Can you give me the equation for this? NaOH(aq) + HCl(aq) ----> NaCl(aq) + H2O(l) http://antoine.fsu.umd.edu/chem/senese/101/reactions/faq/balancing-nao h-hcl.shtml > Now, if there is salt in our stomach (I really don't know), then > this entire process would take place in the stomach instead of our > veins. If the sodium hydroxide is neutralized, and the byproducts > are not harmful, then all is well. > > But if this occurs in our bloodstream, I would be quite concerned. > As far as I can determine, there is no mechanism for the body to > remove it, except in the kidneys. How much damage will it do there? The blood already carries a surplus of Hydroxyl ions, the pH being close to 7.4. The physiology of pH regulation is quite complex but suffice to say that most people could use a more alkaline diet. The concentration we are dealing with here is harmless even if the reaction proceded as you suppose. > This leads to an interesting conclusion: ionic silver colloid > doesn't last long in our body. It is quickly converted to silver > chloride, either in the bloodstream, or in the stomach. The reaction of Silver ions in an acid environment such as the stomach is something that I am studying (such as that is) presently. I know that most minerals are converted into ions in the stomach acid and are thus able to be absorbed by the gut. I have the feeling that silver ions are unreacted at this point and likewise pass into the body. I am not sure if the Ag+ ions react with the chloride in the blood, which may well be complexed with other elements. In any event silver chloride is not stable in the face of other anions such as sulphide and the silver will exchange bonds to become bound them in preference, allowing silver to perform its antiseptic action. > Which leads to the next question: is ionic silver chloride a > desirable part of the process of making and using colloidal silver? Silver chloride has a lower effectiveness in test tube limit trials. Also silver chloride seems to form large particles which precipitate out and are reactive to light, which you have discovered. > I await your guidance and counsel. > > Best Regards, > > Michael R. Monett > mailto:[email protected] Glad to be of help. Ivan. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: [email protected] -or- [email protected] with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: [email protected] Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour <[email protected]>
