My apologies, I take a deep breath and a start over with more respect. What I see is a black coating on one of the rods, sometimes on the glass between the rods with a varience of color ranging from black to brown to yellowish with the black directly under one rod and the yellowish stuff directly below the other but only really visible if the glass is lit from the bottom. If I stir it up, the water turns the average color of the coating on the glass, usually brownish yellow. What I see if I make a batch mof CS that has a color is that the color, be it yellowish or brownish or even black will deposit on the glass of the container after being left undisturbed for several days or weeks. I can post a photo. The remaining liquid is clear with a good T.E. and strong metallic flavor as before storage, though perhaps not quite as strong. If I place h202 onto that color smear, it vanishes. I presume silver oxides because silver oxides have a dark color [or so I believe from handling dental and photographic waste] and find references to various silver oxides being formed under those conditions. I find no reference to the range of possible colors. I have had experience in the distant past with electroplating gold, lead, copper and zinc and seen what various amperages do to the finish. [rough and burnt looking to smooth and shiny] This CS thing is a bit different but somewhat related.
What is it that I am looking at? At 10:28 AM 4/11/00 +1200, you wrote: > >Dear Ken, > >I don't wish to make you seem anything you are not. >I have responded to your words using the language required to explain >the concepts you raise. >Standard scientific terms and definitions are required in this regard, >but I have tried to be as straight forward and brief as possible, and >I do not believe I have used irrelevant technical jargon. If I have I >apologise. ## Perhaps it just went way over my head and 'seemed' irrelevent, then, in trying to understand and draw you out, I stretched my head up to where it was out of joint. Try to remember the generalist level you're talking to. I'm not a specialist. That's none of your doing. > >I am happy to continue the discussion as time permits, but suggest >that you study a basic general science text to familiarise yourself >with the standard terminology and processes. ## Any suggestions on which text? > >To answers some of the points you raise: > > >All chemical reactions are Redox reactions (reduction/oxidation). >Oxidation is that part of the reaction where electrons are removed >from a substance which is then said to be oxidised and has become more >positive. >Reduction is that part of the reaction where a substance gains >electrons, the substance is then said to be reduced and has a >'reduced' positive charge. ## Vague grokking here because of fore mentioned mental block instilled by being taught electronics theory both ways by two different instructors. [made an A+ for 2 years then suddenly couldn't understand anything when all the electrons fell into thier footprint holes and went away. When it comes to relative potentials, I now go absolutely blank on something that was once easily understood. Once, I could design fairly complex circuitry, now I can barely troubleshoot the simple stuff. Very glad to know good engineers. ] > >Oxidation by oxygen is a small subset of all oxidation reactions, and >indeed oxygen will itself be oxidised by fluorine. ## This is where my laymans understanding reaches and then apparently stops. Could we speak in these subset terms? > >An oxide is a compound just like a chloride, fluoride, hydride, >hydroxide, sulphide etc.etc. and has formed in exactly the same way as >these others, that is, via a redox reaction. ## This is what I'm attempting to find out about. Oxide compounds in my jar...if that's what that dark stuff is. Keep it simple please, like "a" combines with or breaks off from "b" and forms "c". > >> *Again, one does not need to assume the presence of silver oxide for >> this to be true. >> "Hydrogen peroxide removes this deposit, because it is elemental >silver, > > It is bound to the water molecule creating >H2O2 which could be called 'water oxide' or 'dihydrogen dioxide', a >substance hungry for electrons. > >> In doing so it has disassociated the metalic >> silver by oxidation (removed electrons) and formed Ag+ ions which >can >> then be measured." > >The metallic silver has disassociated, ie come apart, broken into its >constituent bits. ## Does this mean it has formed smaller particles? [ions] and that they were not ions/charged particles when they were on the glass or in the water before they deposited on the glass? According to the particle size = color idea, this would cause them to apparently vanish and the deposit did apparently vanish. If not, what bits? If I place h2o2 in colored CS, will the color vanish? What would be left over in the CS water? The black stuff on the rod also vanishes when placed in h202 [can't really see what happens to it for all the bubbles] but when clean silver is placed in h202 it turns black after a while. This is weird. Got any ideas? > > >As the test results of the same sample show equal concentration both >for silver ion content (ISE) and for total silver content (AA), then >the total silver content must exist as ions and not as a compound of >silver, which is not measurable by the ISE method. If some of the >total silver content existed as oxides, then the concentration as >measured by the AA would be higher than the ionic measurement. ## A test to test the test, right? So, you tested some colored stuff using both methods and it came out the same. One includes oxides and the other doesn't, but they came out the same which says no oxides present. Correct? > >Hope this helps. >Ivan. Perhaps it will. ;-) Take your time. I know this takes a lot of it and is for my benefit. KD'C > Make your own pure clear Colloidal Silver with a current controlled, "auto off" generator, for pennies a gallon. http://www.silverpuppy.com -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour <mdev...@id.net>
