----- Original Message ----- From: "Marshall Dudley" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, 22 November 2000 15:42 Subject: Re: CS>Re:pH was CS and Brushing your Teeth
> Ivan Anderson wrote: > > > I am not sure whether your further statements are directed to the above > > or not, but the fact remains, if you add any acid to a closed container > > it contains more acid than it did before, no matter how good the buffer > > system is. > > > > What happens in a closed system is irrelevent. The body is an open system, > with oxygen coming in and CO2 going out all the time. The body is a closed system, with finite and regulated inputs and outputs, except for that which we introduce. The bodies capacities for the elimination of wastes are limited, and you cannot expect to exede these limits without concequences. > > > > > It is important, and has been verified by many sources. Check the > > net. The > > > pH can be easily modified by the body for organic acids and bases, but > > no so > > > for the ash content. This is a very important fact. > > > > Yes of course, but the acid content needs to be eliminated by the body > > in order to have no effect. > > That is what breathing does with organic acids. Water is neutral and CO2 is > breathed out. That leave no acid behind. But breathing out CO2 is limited to the amount that can be passed accross the aveoli and most people have poor breathing patterns to begin with. In order for organic acids to be reduced to water and CO2, the acid must first be used which requires the mobilation of enzymes and other systems, and there is a limit to the amount of CO2 concentration in the blood CO2 being an acid. > > > The organic pH is totally irrelevent for the body, the ash is the only > > > important thing, since the body can easily switch from one to the > > other. > > > > Not so. > > > > Why? Every site I have looked at and every reference I have checked has > supported it. The body does not switch anything, the reaction is a simple weak acid conjugate base relationship, and while the carbonic acid - carbonate buffer system lessens the pH change with the introduction of acids or bases it changes never the less. And this system is finite also. You read the general description but not the fine print. > > > That is very easy to prove. If you blood ph changes by a couple of > > tenths, > > > you will get dizzy and can even lose concousness. OK. lets try an > > > experiment. The body maintains ph short term by carbonic acid in the > > > blood. Lets exhale such that the CO2 is eliminated more quickly than > > it is > > > produced. Breathe very deeply about 20 times rapidly. Did you notice > > the > > > dissyness, or maybe even lose conciousness. This is caused by > > alkaladosis. > > > > This is caused by a deficite of CO2 in the blood which causes the blood > > vessels in the brain to contract. > > So? The loss of CO2 causes an increase in ph, which causes alkaladosis, > which may cause the vessels in the brain to contract. It does not nessecarily follow that the acidic content is low, just that the CO2 partial pressure is low. > > >From one of your links: > > > http://www.snybuf.edu/~snyderrj/bio402/lectures/blood2.htm > > > > "- hyperventilation causes a respiratory alkolosis (body fluid becomes > > basic because of too little CO2 > > > > - hypoventilation causes a respiratory acidosis (body fluid becomes > > acidified because of build up of CO2 > > > > ***these respiratory adjustments can take care of short term alterations > > from normal pH. Ultimately, chronic pH disturbances must be handled by > > elimination of excess acid or base by the kidneys." > > > > That is what I am saying. Inorganic acids must be handled by elimination of > excess acid by the kidneys. But organic acids are of no consequence, as > they reduce almost immediately to water and CO2 which is exhaled. How is organic acid reduced almost immediately to water and CO2? If this is true, what use is there in supplementing with an organic acid? CO2 is an acid untill it is expired. > > Many people have enough trouble eliminating the acid wastes already > > without adding more to the burden. > > > > Water and CO2 from organic acids is no burden. See above. > > > > >From another of your links: > > http://www.medstudents.com.br/terin/terin5.htm > > > > Metabolic acidosis is characterized by a primary decrease in bicarbonate > > ( HCO3 ) concentration and a compensatory decrease in the CO2 > > concentration. It occurs from either loss of HCO3 or addition of H. HCO3 > > loss generally occurs through the kidneys or the bowel. Acidosis from > > decreased renal excretion generally is slow to develop. In contrast, > > acidosis from increased acid production, as in lactic acidosis or > > ketoacidosis, can exceed maximal renal excretion and cause a rapidly > > developing, severe acidosis. This quote (which you didn't comment on) shows that when the acid waste burden is high, the expiration of CO2 cannot keep up with the load. > > >From another: > > http://www.virtual.yosemite.cc.ca.us/dward/physo101/Resp_acidbase.htm > > > > pH can be low (acidosis) or high (alkalosis) due to ventilatory or > > metabolic causes. > > Inadequate removal of carbon dioxide by the lungs leads to respiratory > > acidosis. > > True. > > > > > Excess removal of carbon dioxide leads to respiratory alkalosis. > > High levels of hydrogen ions from metabolic sources lead to metabolic > > acidosis. > > Also true, they all take part. > > > > > Bicarbonate ions combine with the hydrogen ions to produce carbonic acid > > and thus carbon dioxide that is removed by the lungs. > > Low levels of hydrogen ions lead to metabolic alkalosis. > > Also true, but does not address the issue. That is that organic acids > become simple CO2 and water and do not have any long term effect on the > body's ph, and inorganic acids must be nutralized by calcium or other means > which can result in serious health consequences over the long haul and must > be eliminated by the kidneys. I still submit that organic acids such as > citric acid cannot have a long term effect on the body, it reduces to water > and CO2 upon utilization. But they do make foods acid, thus acid foods may > actually be alkaline acting in the body. That was the original issue, and I > bet you cannot find one reference which disagrees with that. I never disaggreed with that...I questioned whether vinegar did not increase the total acid load of the body. Acid foods can only be alkaline acting once the acid is removed, and if they contain alkaline minerals. Those foods that are acid acting, contain amounts of anions such as nitrate, phosphates, chlorides and so on. > Marshall Marshall, my point is this, introducing acid food even in the organic form increases the acid load, be it CO2 or not until that CO2 is cleared from the blood. If the body can clear this product well and good, but if it can not, then low level acidosis may result with negative health outcomes. To imply that one may simply ingest as much organic acid as they like because it is quickly transformed into a neutral substance is too simplistic and can compound existing problems. -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: [email protected] -or- [email protected] with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: [email protected] Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour <[email protected]>
