Ivan Anderson wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Marshall Dudley" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, 22 November 2000 15:42 > Subject: Re: CS>Re:pH was CS and Brushing your Teeth > > > Ivan Anderson wrote: > > > > > I am not sure whether your further statements are directed to the > above > > > or not, but the fact remains, if you add any acid to a closed > container > > > it contains more acid than it did before, no matter how good the > buffer > > > system is. > > > > > > > What happens in a closed system is irrelevent. The body is an open > system, > > with oxygen coming in and CO2 going out all the time. > > The body is a closed system, with finite and regulated inputs and > outputs, except for that which we introduce. The bodies capacities for > the elimination of wastes are limited, and you cannot expect to exede > these limits without concequences. >
Do you not understand what closed and open systems mean? If you are breathing, it is an open system. Once you die it is a closed system. If you are continually introducing oxygen to the body, then it has to be an open system. The finite and regulated inputs and outputs makes it an open system. > > > > > > > > It is important, and has been verified by many sources. Check > the > > > net. The > > > > pH can be easily modified by the body for organic acids and bases, > but > > > no so > > > > for the ash content. This is a very important fact. > > > > > > Yes of course, but the acid content needs to be eliminated by the > body > > > in order to have no effect. > > > > That is what breathing does with organic acids. Water is neutral and > CO2 is > > breathed out. That leave no acid behind. > > But breathing out CO2 is limited to the amount that can be passed > accross the aveoli and most people have poor breathing patterns to begin > with. In order for organic acids to be reduced to water and CO2, the > acid must first be used which requires the mobilation of enzymes and > other systems, and there is a limit to the amount of CO2 concentration > in the blood CO2 being an acid. > Just how much CO2 do you think has to be breathed out to cancel out a gram or so of CO2 from citric acid? It takes a matter of minutes. The effects of inorganic acids which can stick around for a long time, if insufficient water is drunk even years, forming such things as kidney stones. From a health standpoint the ash is the only thing that matters. > > > > > The organic pH is totally irrelevent for the body, the ash is the > only > > > > important thing, since the body can easily switch from one to the > > > other. > > > > > > Not so. > > > > > > > Why? Every site I have looked at and every reference I have checked > has > > supported it. > > The body does not switch anything, the reaction is a simple weak acid > conjugate base relationship, and while the carbonic acid - carbonate > buffer system lessens the pH change with the introduction of acids or > bases it changes never the less. And this system is finite also. You > read the general description but not the fine print. > > But organic acids are of no consequence, > as > > they reduce almost immediately to water and CO2 which is exhaled. > > How is organic acid reduced almost immediately to water and CO2? > If this is true, what use is there in supplementing with an organic > acid? > CO2 is an acid untill it is expired. > By oxidation, with enzymes involved. As far as supplementing with organic acids, I guess you are talking about vitamin C. I would assume vitamin C is changed to a form the body can use, I do notice that sodium ascorbate is also called vitamin C. I am not sure how this plays into things. > > > > Many people have enough trouble eliminating the acid wastes already > > > without adding more to the burden. > > > > > > > Water and CO2 from organic acids is no burden. > > See above. > > > > > > > >From another of your links: > > > http://www.medstudents.com.br/terin/terin5.htm > > > > > > Metabolic acidosis is characterized by a primary decrease in > bicarbonate > > > ( HCO3 ) concentration and a compensatory decrease in the CO2 > > > concentration. It occurs from either loss of HCO3 or addition of H. > HCO3 > > > loss generally occurs through the kidneys or the bowel. Acidosis > from > > > decreased renal excretion generally is slow to develop. In contrast, > > > acidosis from increased acid production, as in lactic acidosis or > > > ketoacidosis, can exceed maximal renal excretion and cause a rapidly > > > developing, severe acidosis. > > This quote (which you didn't comment on) shows that when the acid waste > burden is high, the expiration of CO2 cannot keep up with the load. > That is true when a person is sick in certain ways. I am speaking of a healthy person. There are lots of things that a sick person could eat that would cause them problems, that a healthy person can easily handle. That same person best not eat any sugar, or excercise as well, as both will produce increased amounts of CO2. > But they do make foods acid, thus acid > foods may > > actually be alkaline acting in the body. That was the original issue, > and I > > bet you cannot find one reference which disagrees with that. > > I never disaggreed with that...I questioned whether vinegar did not > increase the total acid load of the body. > Acid foods can only be alkaline acting once the acid is removed, and if > they contain alkaline minerals. Those foods that are acid acting, > contain amounts of anions such as nitrate, phosphates, chlorides and so > on. > Vinegar would increase the acidity short term, but it would quickly be "exhaled". There are no minerals, so the effect would be neutral, not alkaline once it was metabolized. > > > Marshall > > Marshall, my point is this, introducing acid food even in the organic > form increases the acid load, be it CO2 or not until that CO2 is cleared > from the blood. If the body can clear this product well and good, but if > it can not, then low level acidosis may result with negative health > outcomes. To imply that one may simply ingest as much organic acid as > they like because it is quickly transformed into a neutral substance is > too simplistic and can compound existing problems. I agree, but if one is unable to quickly clear the excess CO2 from their blood, they are in very poor health already. In that case much more than organic acid intake must be watched. In fact carbohydrates will produce CO2 just as much as the organic acids, so diet must be looked at very carefully in all respects. I do not feel that this is much of a concern for the healthy person though, in which having too much acid leads to thinks like hardening of the arteries, kidney stones and so forth, which require inorganic acid buildup over years. Marshall -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: [email protected] -or- [email protected] with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. 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