In a message dated 11/29/00 7:31:30 AM EST, i...@win.co.nz writes: << Subj: Re: CS>Production of Silver Chloride at pH 2 Date: 11/29/00 7:31:30 AM EST From: i...@win.co.nz (Ivan Anderson) Reply-to: silver-list@eskimo.com To: silver-list@eskimo.com > Van der Waals forces and other as yet not understood attractive forces. > A colloid is a dynamic system of dispersive and attractive forces. > > Ivan: You still haven't explained what forces will push these INDIVIDUALLY > charged silver ions together into a tiny little ball This is very complicated Roger, and is not fully understood by far greater minds than mine. Van de Waals force is an attractive force that like particles have for each other over short distances. Collisions between ions or particles that have a particular vector and energy contributes, and there is some evidence that like charges can attract, but the work in this area is particularly obscure. However, hydration of ions as they leave the anode (point of highest density) limits this aggrigation, which is what we aim for , no?
Ivan: Well, perhaps you could start by explaining why such "like-charge" attractions do not result in silver ions forming compact balls of positive charge in, say, silver nitrate. What special forces are present in the formation of CS at the anode that could possibly result in the formation compact particles of 20-50 atoms (or should I say ions), where EACH of these atoms has a missing electron? > Most of the large particles found in LVDC CS are those that have formed > dendrites on the cathode and have regained electrons, and which are then > dislodged and re-enter the colloid. > > Ivan: So, in fact, these larger particles DO NOT HAVE INDIVIDUAL silver ions. > Isn't that what you're saying? At what CS particle size does each silver ion > within the particle begin to lose its individual charge? Why does this occur? > Can you cite studies that provides evidence for this phenomenon? Roger, when silver ions find their way to the cathode they adhere loosely to it and to other ions that preceded them. Electrons are supplied to them from the cathode, but I have read that this is not an instantaneous effect, as the electrons must travel through a mass that is not as conductive as the crystaline metal would be. As this accululation grows it forms a tree like structure termed dendrites (from the latin tree like?) and when disturbed, large particles may break free and enter the sol. These particles may still have some atoms missing electrons or not. Generally these particles will settle out in short order, as Marshall notes, but some may remain suspended for a considerable time, and cause the colloid to be somewhat turbid. Ivan: I'm sure your explanation above accounts for the EXTREMELY large particles observed, but it certainly does not account for large particles produced when a stirred, LVDC, limited current process is used to generate CS. I have used this method, and on 3 separate occasions I have observed CS 'dropout' several days later. Could THESE particles have been composed of many individual neutral charge silver atoms AND SOME positively charged silver ions as well? Roger -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. To join or quit silver-list or silver-digest send an e-mail message to: silver-list-requ...@eskimo.com -or- silver-digest-requ...@eskimo.com with the word subscribe or unsubscribe in the SUBJECT line. To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour <mdev...@eskimo.com>
