url: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m61192.html RE: CS>The color of silver From: Ivan Anderson Date: Mon, 14 Jul 2003 03:03:44
> Hello Mike, > I am back on board for a while, and am glad to help where I can. This is great! There are many questions I would like to ask:) > The mobility of ions (movement under the influence of an > electrical gradient) in aqueous solution is measured as m2s-1V-1. > That is, metres squared per second per volt. Metres squared > because of the relationship between mobility and diffusion. > Silver ion Ag+ 6.4 x 10^-8 > Hydroxyl ion OH- 20.5 x 10^-8 > As you can see the mobility of ions is extremely slow, 0.02mm per > second for Ag+ at 30V. Notice that the hydroxyl ions travels at > three times the speed of the silver ion. Ugh. Thanks for the information. This is a potentially crippling blow to my theory, but I'll think about it and see what develops. > I have seen some mists leaving the anode, but only at high > potentials or in contaminated water. Yes, I don't see mist at the anode very often, and only at high current. Here is an example of a 3 nines misting at both electrodes: http://www.utopiasilver.com/images/gen3.jpg > Some food for thought: OH- is generated at the cathode in equal > quantities to Ag+ at the anode, until some silver ions reach the > cathode. Yes, this brings up a small problem. Several people have posted observations of misting with a 3 nines after only 10 minutes of operation. This does not seem to allow enough time for silver ions to reach the cathode. > At that time both water and silver ions are reduced here (and > perhaps silver ions preferentially given the over-voltage required > to reduce water) so the amount of OH- available for reaction with > Ag+ is lower, perhaps halved at least. Something funny seems to be happening at the cathode with low current density (for example, 87 uA/sq.in.) With high current density, both electrodes are covered with a black film. Even if you wipe it off, the electrodes remain dark. When the same electrodes are run at low current density, the anode remains dark, but the cathode residue is removed down to bare silver. Steve mentioned that he tried running at low current and observed the same thing. > Also, for ions to interact they must pretty much collide head on > with each other and with sufficient velocity to break through the > shield of water molecules they drag with them and which form the > ions hydrated radius. For example, the radius of the Ag+ ion is > about 0.126nm while its hydrated radius is 0.212nm > What does all this mean? well my view is: The concentration of > silver ions will rise in the solution as long as water is reduced > to H2(gas) at the cathode. The interaction between Ag+ and OH- > forming AgOH or 2AgO (the two are interchangeable depending upon > pH) is minimal, perhaps only 1 or 2%. There is some Ag(solid) > colloids infused from Ag+ reduction at the cathode. > Regards > Ivan Yes, it seems the probability of silver ions combining with hydroxyl seems to be very low. The thing that strikes me is when misting starts, it occurs very suddenly. This has always surprised me. If the process is continued, the entire solution turns black and coats the sides of the glass. However, misting does not seem to occur below a certain current density. Near the end of the process, I sometimes see very tiny gray fingers growing on the cathode. Perhaps you see them also since you run at low current. If I stop the process at this point and wipe the cathode, the trace deposit looks shiny instead of black. If I continue the process after the fingers start growing, the solution starts turning yellow. One thing that might help explain this is the concentration of ions depends on the current density. At low current density, the ion cloud is too diffuse to allow many interactions, and few particles are produced. As the current is increased, two things happen: 1. the number of ions increases, which makes a denser cloud. 2. the stronger electric field compresses the ion cloud closer to the electrodes. This also makes it denser. With a denser cloud, 1% or 2% becomes a large number, since it only applies to the local ion concentration, and not the concentration of the entire solution. However, you have thrown a monkey wrench into my theory with the hydroxyl mobility. I'll have to take my daily walk and think about it some more. But thanks very much for the replies. I'd love to hear your description of how the misting starts. I'll collect the links to my process as you requested and post them later. Best Regards, Mike Monett -- The silver-list is a moderated forum for discussion of colloidal silver. Instructions for unsubscribing may be found at: http://silverlist.org To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com Silver-list archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html List maintainer: Mike Devour <mdev...@eskimo.com>
