Dear Mike: > Where on earth did you find the url? I googled for an hour and came > up empty. I was trying to find the datasheet and specifications - if > you have the url, please post it!!!
I found the "1.3 GHz Hand Held Frequency Counter" in my MCM (www.mcminone.com) catalog page 572 of catalog 48. It is a Tenma 72-6605. Price is $204.75. The input A that is specified to be used in the instructions is 1 megohm input impedance with 25 pF shunt capacitance. So the 50 ohm noise calculation is not valid for 1 megohm. The frequency response of input A is 5 Hz to 25 MHz. So he is measuring 60 - 90 Mhz on a range that is only specified to go to 25 MHz. > Just for fun, let's go through the calculations and verify Bruce's > accuracy. For that, we'll need an equation solver called Mercury, > written by Roger Schafley, who also wrote Borland's Eureka. > Boy, oh Boy, if I ever need something calculated I will call on you. Thank you Mike. Jim Meissner www.MeissnerResearch.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Monett" <5ay1wk...@sneakemail.com> To: <silver-list@eskimo.com> Sent: Saturday, August 14, 2004 6:23 PM Subject: Re: CS>Re: SO>Frequency and the meaning of words. > http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/m72428.html > Re: CS>Re: SO>Frequency and the meaning of words. > From: Jim Meissner > Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 13:31:41 > > > Dear Mike: > > > Thank you, thank you, thank you, for providing the link to the > > source of the "Urban Legend" about frequencies of the human body, > > essential oils, and herbs. > > You are very, very, very welcome:) > > > What a scam, taking a junky cheap digital frequency counter that > > sell new for $204.75 and packaging that with bull shit and selling > > it for $2800.00! > > Where on earth did you find the url? I googled for an hour and came > up empty. I was trying to find the datasheet and specifications - if > you have the url, please post it!!! > > > The sad part is that many of my friends and other well meaning > > individuals like Christine are perpetuating this scam not knowing > > that they have been conned. > > Yes, this is very true. Non-technical people are easily persuaded. > > > It is interesting that the quote "the meter is being used at Johns > > Hopkins University" is denied by Bruce Tainio in the frequently > > asked questions section. > > I think he's pretty clever in the ways he gives himself wiggle room. > > > Christine made a statement that she is not a techie. Well, Bruce > > Tainio is not a techie either. He is a biologist who seems to have > > no clue about the operation of electronic instruments. The way he > > uses the frequency counter is as a random number generator, > > picking up all sorts of interference. The only way this test could > > be run would be in a screen room. I have worked in screen rooms > > where all the interference has been eliminated and have never > > measured a signal coming from the human body. > > There is none. If there were, we would have to get a license from > the FCC, and always be careful to keep our emotions under control so > we don't go outside our assigned frequency band. Of course, there > would have to be a special frequency allotment in the case of death. > > > A funny situation may have developed at Young Living Essential > > Oils. The reason I was not able to get the frequency test > > equipment used to test their essential oils might be because they > > discovered that they had been scammed and are now locked into the > > frequency scam and cannot back out. Funny if that is the case. How > > could they extricate themselves without looking like fools. > > > Again, thank you for the links to the Bruce Tainio web site. This > > has bothered me for years and suspected that it was a scam. I > > wonder whether Bruce is knowingly pulling a fast one or whether he > > simply does not understand what he is doing. > > > Jim Meissner www.MeissnerResearch.com > > Thanks for your interesting comments, Jim. > > I think Bruce knows he is scamming people. First, he emphasizes the > problems with outside interference in numerous places, such as: > > "What makes this frequency meter unique is it's extremely > sensitive sensor..." > > http://www.tainio.com/ir/frqmonitor/index.htm > > and > > "Unless you find yourself on a deserted Pacific island, the signal > you intend to measure is not the only one reaching the counter's > sensor. Once the sensor is attached to the counter, every signal > besides the one of interest becomes a source of interference and > the second sensitivity limitation. The level of these incidental > signals can be quite large, in fact, and usually is the limiting > factor in bio-frequency measurement." > > http://www.tainio.com/ir/frqmonitor/instruct.htm > > These statements give him plenty of wiggle room in case of legal > problems. > > A second item is the Concerto RFI/EMI eliminator: > > http://www.tainio.com/ir/concerto/graph.htm > > If such an instrument could be built, there would be no need for > screen rooms such as you worked in. If the Concerto worked as > claimed, companies would buy it instead of paying big bucks for a > screen room. But they don't. > > A third item is the calculations on Johnson Noise: > > "USE:" > > "This frequency counter is subject to two fundamental limitations > in it's sensitivity. The first is the noise of the electrons > moving through the circuitry of the counter input circuitry. For a > typical 3GHz bandwidth front end, this results in input noise > floor of about -70dBm. Since any desired signal to be counted must > exceed this level by 10 - 15dB so the counter can reliably count > zero crossings, the limiting sensitivity is -44 to -60dBm. This > figure is approached by this counter when operated in a laboratory > environment, but there is another, more limiting factor when > attempting to count radiated signals using the special designed > bio-frequency sensor." > > http://www.tainio.com/ir/frqmonitor/instruct.htm > > By the time you get to calculating Johnson noise, you are pretty > knowledgeable on circuit theory and electronics. So you know what > you are selling could not possible work as claimed. > > Just for fun, let's go through the calculations and verify Bruce's > accuracy. For that, we'll need an equation solver called Mercury, > written by Roger Schafley, who also wrote Borland's Eureka. > > Go to the following url > > http://archives.math.utk.edu/software/msdos/calculus/mrcry209/index.html > > and download > > http://archives.math.utk.edu/software/msdos/calculus/mrcry209/mrcry209.zip > > The nice thing about using this solver is you don't have to rewrite > all the equations when you want to solve for a different unknown. > You just enter the conversion factors, then enough known variables > to solve the equations. Mercury will rewrite the equations as needed > to solve for the unknowns. This saves a lot of time tracking down > silly math errors:) > > Anyway, here are the conversion factors for Johnson Noise: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ; Johnson Noise Calculations > > ; Bw = Noise bandwidth in Hertz (f max - f min) > ; Erms = Thermal noise voltage in Volts rms > ; Irms = Thermal noise current in Amps rms > ; kB = Boltzmann's constant (1.38 x 10-23 J/K) > ; R = Resistance in ohms > ; T = Absolute temperature (Kelvin) > > dbm = 10 * log10(Pwr / 1e-3) > Epwr = Erms^2 / R > IPwr = Irms^2 * R > Erms = sqrt(4 * kB * T * R * Bw) ; thermal noise in uv rms > Irms = sqrt((4 * kB * T * Bw) / R) ; current noise > kB = 1.38054e-23 ; Boltzmann's constant (1.38 x 10-23) > Pwr = Erms * Irms > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Here is what we know: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Bw = 3e9 ; bandwidth in Hz > R = 50 ; resistance in ohms > T = 290 ; temp degrees Kelvin > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > And here is the solution: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > dbm = -73.183 > Erms = +4.9011E-05 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > So the thermal noise signal in a 50 ohm resistor and 3GHz bandwidth > is -73dBm, or 49 microvolts rms at room temperature. > > Now a typical wideband amplifier will have a noise figure of > anywhere from 2dB to 5 or even 10 dB. If we take a figure of 3dB, we > get > > -73dBm + 3dB = -70dBm > > Bruce states: > > "For a typical 3GHz bandwidth front end, this results in input > noise floor of about -70dBm." > > So we have nailed his calculation exactly. > > Next, he shows he understands the signal-to-noise ratio needed to > get reliable triggering (even though his math is a bit off:) > > "Since any desired signal to be counted must exceed this level by > 10 - 15dB so the counter can reliably count zero crossings, the > limiting sensitivity is -44 to -60dBm." > > It should read "-55 to -60dBm". But that's not important. The > significant thing is he clearly understands how the system measures > its own noise, or stray signals that happen to be in the vicinity. > > He knows there are no signals from the body, or plants, or bottles > of oil, or lumps of soil. A clear scam. > > Just to round thing off, there's more things you can do with > Mercury. Here's the Faraday equations for Silver electrolysis: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ; Colloidal Silver Calculations Bob Lee's method > > C = I * sec ; total number of Coulombs > den = I / sqin ; current density Amperes per sq in > ele = I / 1.60217733e-19; electrons per second > gm = k * I * sec ; Faraday's equation > isn = isq / 6.45e14 ; ions per square nanometer per sec > isq = ele / sqin ; ions per sq. in. per sec > k = 107.868 / 96485 ; Coulombs required per gram of silver > lt = 3.785 * gal ; convert gallons to litres > lt = ml / 1000 ; convert millilitres to litres > mg = gm * 1000 ; convert grams to milligrams > ml = 29.57 * oz ; convert ounce to milliliters > phr = ppm / hrs ; ppm per hour > ppm = mg / lt ; 1 ppm is 1 milligram per litre > sec = hrs * 3600 ; convert hours to seconds > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Here's a sample calculation for the Roby Flow Through CS Generator: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > gal = 360 > hrs = 1 > mnt = 0 ; minutes > ppm = 30 ; target ppm > sqin = 4 ; wetted area (estimated) > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > and here's the solution: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Cou = 36564.262153743 > gal = 360 > gm = 40.878 > hrs = 1.0000 > I = 10.156 > lt = 1362.6 > mg = 40878 > oz = 46080 > ppm = 30 > uAin = 2539184.87 > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > This shows he would have to run at a current of 10 amps to generate > 30ppm in 360 gallons in 1 hr. He is obviously wrong. Another scam. > > If you are interested in copper electrolysis, the conversion factor > changes since copper is double ionized and has a different atomic > weight: > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Cou = I * sec ; total number of Coulombs > esec = I / 1.60217733e-19; electrons per second > gm = k * I * sec ; Faraday's equation > isin = esec / sqin ; ions per sq. in. per sec > isnm = isin / 6.45e14 ; ions per square nanometer per sec > k = 0.5* 63.5 / 96485 ; Coulombs required per gram of copper > lt = 3.785 * gal ; convert gallons to litres > lt = ml / 1000 ; convert millilitres to litres > mg = gm * 1000 ; convert grams to milligrams > ml = 29.57 * oz ; convert ounce to milliliters > phr = ppm / hrs ; ppm per hour > ppm = mg / lt ; 1 ppm is 1 milligram per litre > sec = hrs * 3600 + mnt * 60 ; convert hours to seconds > uAin = 1e6 * I / sqin ; current density in uA per sq in > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > So Mercury makes it easy to do quick calculations and verify or > debunk different claims. > > Best Wishes, > > Mike Monett > > > -- > The Silver List is a moderated forum for discussing Colloidal Silver. > > Instructions for unsubscribing are posted at: http://silverlist.org > > To post, address your message to: silver-list@eskimo.com > Silver List archive: http://escribe.com/health/thesilverlist/index.html > > Address Off-Topic messages to: silver-off-topic-l...@eskimo.com > OT Archive: http://escribe.com/health/silverofftopiclist/index.html > > List maintainer: Mike Devour <mdev...@eskimo.com> >
