In a message dated 8/24/2005 9:31:08 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
And some can do it on there own....1 in a million, like Ramana
al: This only seems to be so...specifically because people are taught to go to someone else.
Phil: So, what you're saying is that the dedicated seeker, for whom devotion and willingness is present and therefore awakening far more likely, is told that a teacher is needed and, in their dedication, they seek a teacher even though it is not needed? Enlightenment then seemingly 'results' from contact with the teacher.
If that's so, it clears up yet another confusion I've had involving the invalid concept of cause and effect within the illusion. I couldn't see how anything is needed.
Phil
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al's comments:
The belief is widely accepted that devotion and seeking are desirable traits to develop; however, these are both founded upon erroneous ideas.
Seeking is founded upon the presupposition of lack. If lack is true, then infinite reality is not true. While awareness may seem lacking, the idea of the lack of awareness is actually a tactic of denial which states: "I do not know, and I prove my lack of knowledge by not looking and thus not seeing that which I am aware of...resulting in unawareness." This ploy is self-deceptive and cannot be true, for to BE....is also to KNOW.
Devotion is founded upon lack also, for it is a method which depends upon lack and uses focused and concentrated emotionally-locked decisions to do or not do this or that to achieve abundance, knowledge, etc. However, devotion is also founded upon following someone else, or perhaps following ideas such as "higher self" and so on. One would not devote unless they believed there was something to gain...once again, something they did not already have. If one was already in recognition of their whole awareness, and did not substitute awareness and knowledge's report with denial's ideas and images, they would not devote to methods in order to find it. The idea of devotion is also founded upon sacrifice of that toward which one is not devoted, and yet which they believe is real. Such related notions (to devotion) such as sacrifice or commitment and compromises (which are but forms of sacrifice), get a lot of touting by the allegedly wise and by ancient texts, etc., but these are all about the illusory world, are are lack ideation dependent.
One can seek and one can follow a teacher, but only in preparation for what they could have done from the beginning, in order to access that which they had all along. So, that being the case, it is clear that such seeking and following is not necessary, and is actually involved in delay. That delay is an insistence upon personal ideation of lack and its corollary, poor self-image....which in turn is founded upon blunted self-awareness and self-understanding...all of which arise from the refusal to look at self without adding ideas from others and old texts, in order to simply see self as it is. This refusal, despite is multitude of cloaks and disguises, is denial of the very reality they are declaring a lack of. So, while their thought pattern is "I will see and follow and find"...their mental activity is more like "I will get ready to find first, and when I'm ready, then I will find" (which necessarily incorporates "I do not know now" and "of course, I will never quite be ready and thus will never quite find, but will ALWAYS seek and follow."
And so the question arises, "Why would one do this to themself?" Simply because, in their denial view, to which they have become addictively conditioned, they do not believe they are the very substance and power of the universe, and they believe that they MUST seek and follow in order to "attain"....which again reinforces the idea of lack. Looking now seems alien to such thinking.
They believe dedication and discipline is what is needed, and needed specifically to fulfill the bringing of supply to their neediness of lack. However, their dedication is misplaced as soon as it extends beyond their immediate reality, and discipline is a euphemism for control of self. Control is not real, and the belief in and attempt to perform control of oneself or another, or anything at all, is founded upon the belief in lack, need and so forth. Control is not possible, and thus utilization of control to force oneself to see that which their very act of discipline is erected to block vision of, is contraindicated. Discipline then gets characterized and rationalized as being part and parcel to dedication and devotion, and as just a critically needed part of the methodology for supplying obvious lack.
As to results or outcomes, these are not real. Outcomes are limited to time...the time in which they seem to occur. Therefore, when these are planned for by goal setting and strategic ploy utilization of self-discipline, etc., any outcome reached, obtained or achieved is within the domain in which they can appear...or the world of illusions. Since that which lies beyond such temporary and unreal domain is claimed to be the goal, it is clear that this type idea combination is schismic in nature...or is the imposition of splitmindedness, a deception directed toward the self which proclaims that the outcomes provided by and through denial and its methodologies can and will illuminate that which denial denied...and this is utterly impossible.
The reality of self is simple, and is no outcome. It is not a thought system or method, nor is it a product of employing such.
altarlight
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