Hi, hmm... well its the view settings we were discussing. The pdf file obviously contains orientation settings (Thomas made it clear they are not part of the discussion)- when viewing the pdf the user can choose the view settings, like the zoom/pan and page orientation. That's what the items in the Tools menu are for- they change the view of the pdf and not the pdf itself. For myself, and clearly others, there is a need to view a pdf file which we are generating with different view settings (pan/zoom/orientation)- the problem is that Skim loses some of these settings on a file refresh, and its a bit of a hassle to reset them and breaks the workflow. This bugs me in Skim and it bugs me in Preview (given up on acrobat).
That Preview.app does not do this does not make my expectations wrong. When reloading a file, Preview resets both the pan and the rotation, but keeps the zoom, which is a bit more annoying. Skim keeps the pan and zoom settings and forgets the rotation. Why not treat rotation the same? or do what Preview does? or just forget all user view settings on refresh? The expectation is correct. Having opened a pdf file and navigated to a certain page, zoomed, panned, rotated (whatever...), a file refresh should preserve that view, and *not* reset it (or at least make this configurable behaviour). Would it be possible to outline what changes are necessary to effect this if you are not prepared to consider it yourself? kind regards, On Fri, Jan 7, 2011 at 12:04 AM, Christiaan Hofman <[email protected]>wrote: > Page rotation is not a view setting, it's part of the PDF data That's why > this is not not a bug. Behavior is also consistent with e.g. Preview. So > your expectation is wrong. It won't work properly for many reasons, the once > I detailed are already sufficient. Quite frankly, I think this "discussion" > is a good example showing why I don't want to discuss this any further. > > Christiaan > > On Jan 7, 2011, at 0:30, tcb wrote: > > Hi, > > I would like to support Thomas' point of view here- I also think this is a > bug in Skim, in that it is not the behaviour I expect. > > I often generate pdf data, examine it in detail, then re-generate the pdf. > This involves viewing the pdf with various zoom and rotation settings. On > reloading the pdf, I then have to reapply the rotation settings, although > the zoom settings are remembered. I expect that the view settings are > maintained when the pdf is reloaded- it makes no sense to have to reapply > them. It would not be a sensible option to change the rotation in the pdf > just for this, since I might have to view it in many different ways before I > have it right- this is properly the job of the pdf viewer to view the pdf as > I choose. I don't really see an issue with changing the default to this > behaviour- for someone who has not changed the default view settings, they > will see no difference when they reload the pdf. It might be possible to > make this a hidden preference- 'reloadWithCurrentViewSettings'. Of course, > there would then be some small overhead for implementing this behaviour for > all pages- but a dictionary with a rotation code for each page that the user > has manually changed, otherwise use the default (this is surely an > insignificant overhead). > > > On Thu, Jan 6, 2011 at 11:14 AM, Christiaan Hofman <[email protected]>wrote: > >> >> On Jan 6, 2011, at 2:18, Thomas Schneider wrote: >> >> > Christiaan: >> > >> >> No, the problem is that you won't accept my explanation >> > >> > No, I understood your explanation and it's not relevant. You didn't >> > explain why N numbers are needed when obviously 1 (with 4 values) will >> > clearly do to set the state of how the entire document is viewed. >> > >> >> I am not saying that the information is expensive. My point is that >> >> using this information is expensive. >> > >> > I agree that setting page rotations for every page would be expensive, >> > but that's not what I want so you are thinking about the wrong >> > parameter(s). It's could be a terminology problem but when I say >> > 'rotate' you apparently think about the PostScript rotate command, >> > which is not what I am talking about. >> > >> >> Moreover, this is NOT a bug. It's the way the program behaves. >> > >> > If the way a program behaved always defined what it should do then >> > there would never BE any bugs! As far as I can see this is a design >> > bug or (minor!!) oversight to an otherwise beautifuly built program. >> > >> >> For good reasons. It also does exactly what you ask it to do: reload >> >> the data from disk (page rotation is part of the PDF data). >> > >> > Yes, page rotation is part of the PDF data. That's not what I'm >> > talking about. The program does not do exactly what I ask it to do: >> > create a stable display at the current hand (!!!!) settings. >> > >> >> A bug report list is NOT a place for discussion. >> > >> > Take a look at the discussions about SeaMonkey under bugzilla. In >> > many cases, holding a discussion outside the bug report location is >> > awkward at best because they are disconnected. >> > >> >> Moreover, I've said before, I'm not going into lengthy and >> >> frustrating back-and-forths anymore, where I have to repeat >> >> arguments that are subsequently ignored, and the conclusion has >> >> already been drawn. >> > >> > Right. Please don't repeat your arguments again. Your arguments so >> > far have not been relevant to the issue at hand. You have not made a >> > logical case for needing N variables. That's why I'm asking for >> > others to discuss this with since you apparently are only thinking >> > about one of the three (at least) kinds of rotation and not about the >> > thing I'm concerned with. >> > >> > Tom >> > >> >> I don't need to make a case, I only stating a FACT. And another FACT is >> that there don't exist three types of rotations, there is only one: the >> rotation of each page. The fact that there are multiple ways to affect this >> one piece of data does not change this fact. If you want a reason for these >> FACTS, then try to argue with Adobe. >> >> Everybody is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts. >> >> Christiaan >> >>
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